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The technical bassist. Old school or new school?

#41
Sometimes when I'm hungry I just want a fat juicy cheeseburger with lettuce tomato and mayo. I've had thousands and will have thousands more.
Thats how I look at playing bass, sometimes the audience wants simple fat grooves or dramatic exciting driving lines(I'm a huge Maiden fan) so I don't mind playing simple or the same things over and over again if it's what people want to hear.

And with all the food network stuff you can see (and taste, if you dare)the dangers of obsessing on the new, different, and complicated.

Technical bass playing can certainly be exciting like this, which is over over the top but I think is very cool and I think the audience did to:

 
#42
play whatever style makes you happy. if you dig flying all over the board good for you. if you dig just locking in and laying the backing groove good for you.

laying down a solid groove with tasty nuances can be just as challenging as someone slap solo'ing through an entire song.

attitude and feelings are infectious so if you are enjoying yourself so will the crowd :)
 
#44
All a bass is is a piece of wood with some strings and pickups. You can play with your stringed plank the way people have for hundreds of years (the idea of bass as a whole, not just the BG) or you can play it by flogging it with a 3 legged squirrel from Albuquerque with an inferiority complex, cause all it is is a plank of wood with strings attached, do what you like with it.
 
#45
Roy Vogt said:
Is it just me or does anyone else find the idea of a purist way to play an instrument that's only 60 years old that is mostly used to play a 55 year old Art Form hysterically funny?
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I took a 3 years break from music and when I come back 4 month ago ... all I see is that ... and there is so many people like that on TB ... that I must say ... make me hate bass a lot. I play more classical DB, I never encounter that kind of "tradition is the only right way" in the jazz and classical world.
 
#46
Mike in Chicago said:
"Music is constantly evolving and changing eventually the old school bassists will die off and that will leave us with today's young bassists."

In other words...the world will be left to endure guitar players who switch to bass, play the bass like a guitar and say they're "bassists".

Go listen to some James Jamerson...THAT'S bass.
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For you it is, for me, not so much. Great for reading various rythms but it bored me because it is always the same notes, just in different rythms.
 
#47
Mike in Chicago said:
Simply...guitar players go BLING, 2,3,4 BLANG,2,3,4, BLING,2,3,4, BLANG, 2,3,4, BLONG,2,3,4,5,6,7,8.

We carry them from point A to point B.

How you fit your passing tones in there shows how competent and classy you are.

It's not a contest.
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Well if your guitarist plays like that ... you play with someone lacking a lot.

Like someone else said ( I think it is Mike Dimin ) , stop being a bass player ( guitaris or whatever what ) and be a musician. Your instrument shouldn't dictate how you play nor what you can and cannot play.
 
#49
There is an aspect to this which is pure physics. It can't be ignored that the bass is an instrument that plays low notes. That makes it good for fulfilling certain roles in music, such as playing the low notes of chords and the strong beats of a rhythm. It also means that it's not as good as other instruments at other roles such as playing melodies and upper extensions of chords. You can do it, and some can do it brilliantly, but that's not what the instrument naturally excels at. I wonder if on violin or flute forums posters agonize over how they would love to play basslines but band mates and audiences are just too narrow minded to understand?
 
#50
I might get reamed for this but I think life's a precious thing to waste on being a bass guitar virtuoso.

Double bass is different because it can sound really beautiful in the right hands, but there's just no call for bass guitar 'shredding', it mostly just sounds bad, and there's very little opportunity for it in most music.

That's the conclusion I came to anyway. Why dedicate years to developing skills that nobody wants?
 
#51
For me it's quite simple: The music should always be first, no matter how complex or simple it is. Sure, good technique is impressive and will make your life easier, but if you don't play the right stuff that a certain song demands, then it will suck. If it means playing a single note for a couple of minutes, then so be it.

I don't see music as a challenge at all, nor as competition. We are all individuals, and we all have our own tastes. We should be our own greatest fans when we make music, because what's the point in doing it if you don't enjoy it?
 
#52
"Your music is great. It just has too many notes. It's a known fact that the human ear can only hear so many notes."
"Which notes do you propose that I take out, then?"
-from the movie Amadeus
 
#54
The young/old battle which is a component of this topic is nothing new, and goes on in all of the arts, as well as in sports and other areas.
Yes, the young lions are absolutely needed to push the art of bass playing forward.
And yes, the old masters are absolutely needed to advise the young lions that they will likely face adversity.
There is nothing wrong with an experienced person reminding a talented and imaginative young person (in bass playing, or in basketball) that it's admirable to be a team player, and also that being noncompromising will limit your opportunities. Some of us old guys are actually trying to HELP when we say these things.
There is also nothing wrong with a young guy doing something radical in the name of self-expression. (I always think of Jimi Hendrix turning his guitar upside down, fretting with his thumb, and creating beauty out of amp malfunction, i.e. feedback. The Mel Bay books never said to do THAT!)
 
#55
I also think of when I was getting my music degree in a 100% classical music department. I was a self-taught rock/blues/jazz guy. In my first year of theory, my counterpoint homework would come back with "NON-IDIOMATIC!" written in red all over it.
It took me years to understand that the teacher wasn't telling me that I was a bad musician (or person); it was just that I hadn't grasped the rules that make Baroque music sound like Baroque music. Obviously, a real composer uses this knowledge to his advantage, and even Bach did use parallel fifths for effect (rarely, I admit). When you grasp the grammar and syntax of musical styles, you have more control over your expression.
So...
Having the power to choose whether or not to play the Victor Wooten licks at the country gig gives you more control over where you and your career are headed. It's up to you.
 
#56
dougjwray said:
I also think of when I was getting my music degree in a 100% classical music department. I was a self-taught rock/blues/jazz guy. In my first year of theory, my counterpoint homework would come back with "NON-IDIOMATIC!" written in red all over it.
It took me years to understand that the teacher wasn't telling me that I was a bad musician (or person); it was just that I hadn't grasped the rules that make Baroque music sound like Baroque music. Obviously, a real composer uses this knowledge to his advantage, and even Bach did use parallel fifths for effect (rarely, I admit). When you grasp the grammar and syntax of musical styles, you have more control over your expression.
So...
Having the power to choose whether or not to play the Victor Wooten licks at the country gig gives you more control over where you and your career are headed. It's up to you.
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For my senior recital as a composition major, my music was FULL of parallel 5ths. My adviser refused to sign off on my senior recital, I had to go to my composition teacher to get permission
 
#57
Mike Dimin said:
For my senior recital as a composition major, my music was FULL of parallel 5ths. My adviser refused to sign off on my senior recital, I had to go to my composition teacher to get permission
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I feel your pain. :D
What really helped me was singing in the chorus for a year. We performed a Haydn Mass, and that got the "proper" :rolleyes: voiceleading sounds into my ears much better than the classroom did.
(The second semester that I was in the chorus, we did Stravinsky's astounding "Les Noces"... that didn't exactly help in the same way ;) but it sure fanned the flames of my love of music.)
 
#58
maxgrant said:
Some folks seem to have the mentality that "bass is a critical support instrument" and should therefore not be approached creatively. Or that the bass should never crave the spotlight.

I find this mentality moribund and of course completely unartistic. Treating bass like something that literally should be seen and not heard has become almost a cult in certain circles.

The fundamental facts are you are an artist, you have a musical instrument, and you should seek every path that you can towards expressing yourself on that instrument. You are NOT, I repeat, NOT a machine expected to stay out of the real musicians' way. That attitude is utter horsepoopie and if you try to approach a lifetime of playing in that mode, anyone with a smidgeon of artistic sensibility will wither and die of boredom.

If you choose to be an artist with your instrument, you will always be out in front of the guys who think in small, tiny boxes. Being able to play with great technical skill is a huge huge huge asset because that great skill can be applied at all levels of playing. To illustrate this, go grab the first Jaco Pastorius solo CD. If you do not have this recording, GO NOW AND GET IT. It is almost like a textbook of how to really get wicked with a bass guitar. I personally do not care for the music as personally enjoyable music I'd sit and listen to for kicks, but it's hard not to be fascinated with just how well Jaco played.

At any rate, to illustrate how great skill makes you a better player even if you don't like fast, busy, over-the-top riffing, listen to Jaco play the verse of "Come On, Come Over." It's a pretty simple riff, but the groove is fantastic and Jaco's insanely precise playing is still very evident, even when he's not flying all over the fretboard.

THAT is what good technique is for. It's for versatility.

I absolutely reject the notion that I should not stretch my musicianship and look for some "pocket" to keep myself in. A bass is a musical instrument with immense power and dynamic reach. Explore all of the possibilities in your instrument. Why would you not want to?
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JAUQO III-X said:
Depending on the artists who may have hired the bass player. Usually with less you will keep the gig.
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The one thing he could have added to make that a close to perfect post would have been "within the context of what I've been asked to do as a member of a team."

I'm most impressed by people who manage to effectively occupy the traditional role of a bass player, yet do so with innovation and an artistic approach.
 
#59
dougjwray said:
I feel your pain. :D
What really helped me was singing in the chorus for a year. We performed a Haydn Mass, and that got the "proper" :rolleyes: voiceleading sounds into my ears much better than the classroom did.
(The second semester that I was in the chorus, we did Stravinsky's astounding "Les Noces"... that didn't exactly help in the same way ;) but it sure fanned the flames of my love of music.)
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My choir teacher kept hitting on my, then, girlfriend ... ended up marrying her :hmm:
 

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