The technical bassist. Old school or new school?

[KrisWarrington]

Also, music isn't a competition. If you can't get past that, then just quit.

Music as a whole may not be, but the music industry is. If you want to go somewhere in the music buisness you have to be better than other musicians and have dedication. Labels don't sign bands that are bland, unoriginal, indifferent, lack determination or for the most part lack talent (most of the time). They want something new and better from people who will do whatever it takes to succeed so they make sales. Something that millions of people will enjoy. And most of todays youth enjoy either rap, fast heavy playing, classical music, or country. It's all about the audience of tomorrow because todays audience is going to die off. I love to play music, always have, and could care less if I ever get famous doing it. Doing local gigs once a week is enough for me. Just extra money for gas and equipment.

 

[tZer]

I'd caution you not to be "blinded by the flash" and not to think of what "they" do as anything different than what "the other guys" do. It's all playing bass. Yes, there are tons of examples of uninspired bass parts and players. Don't let that fact mislead you into believing that's the "other option" - it's not.

Ironically, I think when you focus on simplicity, you expose complexity. I think chasing complexity actually works against you. Some players choose to exploit that - and do so amazingly - but I don't necessarily think it's a direct byproduct of chasing "technical" excellence. The quickest path to playing quickly and acrobatically is by practicing in a slow and balanced fashion.

Listeners can only tolerate so much speed and "technicality" before it all becomes a blur - and (ironically. again) dull. Musicality is so much more than leaping arpeggios and blistering scales - as impressive as they can be at times.

Music as a whole may not be, but the music industry is. If you want to go somewhere in the music buisness you have to be better than other musicians and have dedication.

Not true. For every player you are better than, there are ten more who are better than you, and that will always be the case. Get on that merry-go-round and be prepared to be dizzy and exhausted. If you choose to look at being a bass player as a competition against OTHER people as opposed to a personal competition to continually improve yourself for the sake of improving yourself you will always be measuring your sense of success by someone else's ruler. How exhausting and frustrating...

Labels don't sign bands that are bland, unoriginal, indifferent, lack determination or for the most part lack talent (most of the time).

Yes they do.

They want something new and better from people who will do whatever it takes to succeed so they make sales. Something that millions of people will enjoy.

Millions of people enjoy simple, "non-technical" music. Niche audiences enjoy exceptional, virtuosity.

 

[JAUQO III-X]

Labels don't sign bands that are bland, unoriginal, indifferent, lack determination or for the most part lack talent (most of the time).

They do it all the time.

They want something new and better from people who will do whatever it takes to succeed so they make sales. Something that millions of people will enjoy.

If that really was the case the quality of music today would surpass the quality of music from the last 100 years combined.

We live in a time where the quality of music and artists are second to image or simply just looking like a musician.


No disrespect but you really do not understand how today's music business works. One of the reasons it's garbage is because you have individuals who have no real life experiences trying to run things.


Learn to create your own existence.

 

[KrisWarrington]

Everything depends on the audience

 

[JAUQO III-X]

Everything depends on the audience

Not always.

Sometimes the audience doesn't even have a clue. And that's where good/great marketing can come in.

 

[groooooove]

i think the term "Technical" has two meanings in the electric-bass contects.

to me it in many ways means "efficient," the get-the-job done, and done well, type of thing. james jamerson in this respect was a very technical player- look at a chord sheet along with some of his weirder basslines. he's displaying a huge understanding of music, and showing his technecal - and musical - thinking.

then theres the physically technical billy sheehans of the world, and the arguement there is so dead that im not sure i want to even type my thoughts on it. oh what the hell. these guys are very often wonderfull musicians, and in their solo bass pieces or features, they do amazing things that we should all appreciate. sometimes it works great even in a bassline context, too. sometimes it doesn't. oh well, better luck next time. yes, serve the song, but that does not neccesarily mean lay back. sometimes busy and agressive or upfront, while unusual or unexpected, can make a tune so much better. (NOT ALWAYS!!)

 

[tZer]

Everything depends on the audience

You are qualifying your opinions with your own view of the music industry and attempting to use that as a more broad justification for why 'your view' is 'the view'. It's only a view - and a very skewed one at that.

No disrespect intended - just an observation from your last post where you started off by declaring what the music industry wants and requires from musicians and how that's why you are going to focus on playing with "technicality" - then finishing by saying that you don't care what it wants.

If you are going to chase "the industry", you'd be best served leaning to be broad, being able to both hold down super-simple lines while also being able to flash up on the odd occasion - and not judging music using such narrow parameters.

If you really do think that being a pro player is more about being better than the other guy then I think you are setting yourself up to be Sisyphus. You'll "get better" than Bob - then discover that you're still "not as good" as Frank - you'll always be trying to figure out who is the next best player and trying to top them... Ugh... Dismal...

If you really think being "technical" is the "key to success" - then go for it and more power to you. There are a great many "technical" players out there who are successful. But don't set yourself up for failure with the misguided belief that "the industry" wants or needs anything. If you are the right player for the gig, you'll get the gig - even if there is another player in line who is "better" than you. It happens all the time.

 

[somegeezer]

I don't think you really understand what technical playing really is, but certainly nothing wrong with it at all. I'd say even the people you think are technical are still just "simplistic" to my kinda music. =P But hell, I have more trouble playing that kinda stuff. Really gotta think about how each note works together. It's not something I put time into practising much at all. I'm more of a "play it if it sounds good, ask questions later" kinda guy.

 

[Audiophage]

Music as a whole may not be, but the music industry is. If you want to go somewhere in the music buisness you have to be better than other musicians and have dedication. Labels don't sign bands that are bland, unoriginal, indifferent, lack determination or for the most part lack talent (most of the time). They want something new and better from people who will do whatever it takes to succeed so they make sales. Something that millions of people will enjoy. And most of todays youth enjoy either rap, fast heavy playing, classical music, or country. It's all about the audience of tomorrow because todays audience is going to die off. I love to play music, always have, and could care less if I ever get famous doing it. Doing local gigs once a week is enough for me. Just extra money for gas and equipment.

Doing well in the music industry has very little to do with actually being good at playing music nowadays. If anything, the people who are the most well off in the music industry are the people who have very little to do with even playing the music like the record executives or concert promoters.

 

[chaosMK]

I think if you want to go technical it helps if you are the lead or at least highly involved in the writing/arranging of the music. I think for really cool bass stuff to work out (technical, yet awesome feel and appropriateness) it's crucial for everyone to be cooperating.

 

[Roy Vogt]

I don't think it's an "either/or" at all. I've played highly adventurous Jazz/Fusion with notes aplenty for the last 30 years in Nashville at the same time I've played with Country Artists, done Bluegrass gigs, played with crooners (Thanks, Engelbert!), done Heavy/Hair Metal and everything under the Sun. This last week I played on a Children's Record (electric and upright), did a Jazz gig on fretless 6 string, did a Bass Clinic (notes aplenty) and have a reunion gig with The Stan Lassiter Group tonight (lots of notes aplenty!). On the horizon are two Upright projects (piano duo or trio with vocals), Holiday parties on Electric and Upright and a Jazz CD.
Having bags of technique just means you can make the choice. A guy like Neil Stuebenhaus can play insane Fusion one minute and make insane money with Barbera Striesand the next. I want to be that guy!

 

[dvh]

Stop over thinking it. Play to your abilities, strive to continually be a better musician, leave the ego out of it....

 

[jmattbassplaya]

My band is currently in the studio recording our EP, and so far myself and my drummer have been getting nothing but compliments because of our ability to turn simple lines and licks into seriously fat grooves.

Complexity for the sake of complexity really does nothing for a lot of music. It might make the musician playing it feel good, but how does it make your audience feel? Do they get up and dance or do they stand there in bewilderment?

Of course, that's not to say complex music can't groove or get people moving, but, IME, it's often the simplest and most 'open' lines that get people up and going. To me, the number one way you can determine if a person is a player or a musician is by viewing their restraint to play complex lines just for the sake of playing complex lines.

 

[Herrick]

Great post by MaxGrant. I always do one of these when I see comments like, "That bass player thinks he's a guitar player", or "The higher notes are for the guitarist to play" etc.

 

[rimbaud]

I had this kind of problem in a blues jam-session. A guitarist/singer wanted to play Stevie Wonder's "supersitition" to break out "old school blues". I played it, with my feel and groove, we had fun on stage , good drummer etc... and a guitarist followed me when i quit the stage to have a smoking break. Do you know what i heard? "that's not the way it should be played, superstition it is these notes, and not those ones bla bla bla...."

This guy loves to show himself as the "guardian" of the jam, "I've been playing blues for many years, i'm a pro, bla bla bla..."

People danced, we had fun, what else?

Trust me, never ear that kind of person, if you like it, the audience like, your mates like it, so just do it, and do not care about those guys. I love playing "put the shoe on the other foot" because it's my slapping fun, I have some fun, i can express myself , ... and it's technical... but only for old school bluesmen you know.

Serving the song, easy to ear whan you play shania twain or pop songs, you can't serve the song if you don't serve yourself before... music, like any other art, is individualist. Express yourself as you really want, with sincerity and "bon goût", that's the better way.

 

[Mike Dimin]

"Technical" and "technique" come from the same root. Any and all techniques are tools to create music. The more techniques that you have, the better your ability to create the music that you want to.

There are many who mistake great technique for great music. The two are not necessarily the same

 

[KrisWarrington]

There are many who mistake great technique for great music. The two are not necessarily the same

I can admit I'm one of those people. No shame in that.

 

[Mike Dimin]

I can admit I'm one of those people. No shame in that.

No, no shame in that. And some very technical music is also great. Once we learn to differentiate, then we can truly mature as musicians.

Listen to Lee Sklar on all those old JT hits. Nothing technical, but absolutely truly musical. On the other hand Jaco or Jamerson, very technical but also very musical. I'll stay away from naming those that are technically brilliant but void of music.

As a solo bassist, I scour Youtube for new solo bassists. Some guys are really musical but have yet to develop the techniques to be really fluid on the instrument. Too many are very technical but truly lack any real musical ideas, IMEO

Mike

 

[MJ_Sotti]

"Music is constantly evolving and changing eventually the old school bassists will die off and that will leave us with today's young bassists."

In other words...the world will be left to endure guitar players who switch to bass, play the bass like a guitar and say they're "bassists".

Go listen to some James Jamerson...THAT'S bass.

 

[MJ_Sotti]

Simply...guitar players go BLING, 2,3,4 BLANG,2,3,4, BLING,2,3,4, BLANG, 2,3,4, BLONG,2,3,4,5,6,7,8.

We carry them from point A to point B.

How you fit your passing tones in there shows how competent and classy you are.

It's not a contest.