Wow, I'm sorry to hear that. I'm glad my background is in R&B, Contemporary jazz and gospel. All genres where the bass shines nice and bright!
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The Truth About Being a "Good" Bass Player
- Thread starter theroan
- Start date
YOU cared to get that far, and that is really ALL that is needed in terms of validation of those skills developed. Now, if you're talking about what the audience does and does not appreciate, that's a different conversation, entirely, IMO.
But it's more difficult to create a "catchy" slap or tapping solo than a catchy bass line. That is part of the reason that more people fail to pull it off. Not to pick on Buckaroo but I see a lot of this here. What is wrong with being able to do both? Most guys who play fast and can't groove cant groove when they play slow either. I have always fought the idea that the more my technique improves the less musical I am. My musicality improves as my maturity improves and my technique allows me the tools to express that musicality.
After years of being somewhat shunned from the local "band" scene for most of my career (not a big deal since I do more orchestra/studio work) I was asked to play on the last song on a local artists' album. After I recorded my track I was called back to retrack the entire album, replacing the two top call guys in the scene. Suddenly I was getting more calls for gigs than I could take. I finally asked a guitarist why it had taken so long for people to catch on and he informed me that because I had chops and 6 string bass, they had always thought I wouldn't be able to hold a groove. What am I missing here?
Good grooving is good grooving no matter how fast you are playing. Did Cliff Burton show no taste by play along with and against the guitars in metallica? Would he be grooving harder if he was pumping out straight eighth notes like Micheal Anthony? You could also make an argument that James Jamerson was playing more note than he "needed" to on all the classic motown recordings. Musicality is playing with appropriate style for the music you are performing. I can tap slap and solo circles around most people but I would certainly not do it on a country or blues gig. On a fusion gig I will pull out all the stops because it is the right time and place.
Sorry for the rant but this has always really bugged me. Don't judge people by what they choose to play but how they choose to play it.
This has been my experience as well. Do something interesting and people will notice.
But to the OP (if he is even still following the thread), I don't know what's getting you down, but get over it and get back to business. You may need to re-orient yourself on how you approach the instument, but you have shown some dediction to the instrument, so pick it up and take a good hard look at what you are doing and see if you need to make some changes.
First of all, I'd agree with you. Advanced technique, if used as it should, only helps a musician. But you asked what you are missing.
Coming from a guitarist's perspective, as the other members of the band, there are too many bassists out there who want to get all fancy with it and show their "chops", who cannot lay down a groove. Heck, most of them can't even keep decent time. A guy that's got real chops sometimes gets mixed into that category, and we miss him because we're looking for somebody that's solid and knows how to keep time. We focus more on the basics at first, because, no matter how skilled at all that other stuff the guy is, if he can't groove and can't keep time, he's no good to us. You just got (perhaps unfairly) mixed in with them.
Since you are a guitar player let's be candid for a moment. My opinion is that many guitar players are intimidated by a bassist who has more musical knowledge and/or chops? Would you agree with that to some degree? I got turned down for a blues band because "you can't play blues on a 6 string bass". He then proceeded to hand me a 50$ bass that most pawnshops wouldn't sell and told me "thats a real bass." 
I couldn't agree more, but there are even more people who don't have good chops that can't groove or keep time. I am sure you have played with those guys too.
The guy sounds like a jerk. But i would agree on this point. It's not so much a great bass player that intimidates him(although I bet they're out there), But there are an awful lot of guitar players that are threatened by ANYBODY they percieve as having more musical knowledge or chops. Guitar players are the most insecure, concieted, know it all people I've ever met or worked with (next to drummers, who are simply hardheaded). In all the bands I've played in, it was the other guitar player that I always had the most problems with.Since you are a guitar player let's be candid for a moment. My opinion is that many guitar players are intimidated by a bassist who has more musical knowledge and/or chops? Would you agree with that to some degree? I got turned down for a blues band because "you can't play blues on a 6 string bass". He then proceeded to hand me a 50$ bass that most pawnshops wouldn't sell and told me "thats a real bass."
From vying for more leads, more volume, more whatever, to trying to tell me why my gear was all wrong. But I never played that game. I always tried to let that stuff roll off me like water off a duck's back, and I mostly suceeded. And I did my best to either get rid of the guy, or get out of the band and into one with more level headed, mature musicians. Usually when the rest of the band found out I was leaving, they got rid of the jerk pretty fast. Life's too short to play with jerks.
Yep. And I bet I was one of those guys when I first started out, too.I couldn't agree more, but there are even more people who don't have good chops that can't groove or keep time. I am sure you have played with those guys too.
I used to have a guitarist friend who was technically a very good player. Technique wise he was much better than me. I'm kind of a sloppy player, but I make up for it by being able to feel the music and play what's needed.
This guitarist did good as long as we stuck to what we had practiced. However, when it came time to improvise, or when he got in a jam situation, he just could not play. Everything he did sounded like scales.
There's a place for technique, and I'm certainly not going to disparage or discourage anyone from pursuing a greater technique. But music is(or should be, in my view), all about emotion and the way it feels. Without that, it's just noise. And not particularly good noise at that.
One of the best guitar players I know can barely play a solo to save his life, but is untouchable on rhythm guitar. I think he was a bass player in a past life.
P.S. He gets more gigs than any of the lead guitar player I know. It's good to know that there are a few players who can nail the basics and are rewarded for it.
P.S. He gets more gigs than any of the lead guitar player I know. It's good to know that there are a few players who can nail the basics and are rewarded for it.
This sounds like my brother. He's the one that got me started on guitar. He plays a little lead now, but for about thirty years he was strictly a rhythm guitarist. Whatever band he happened to be in, that was the band that was pretty much the one to beat in the area he was in. Every band wanted him. Like your friend, he was/is untouchable on rhythm guitar. One of those guitarists that everyone in the area knows.
Believe it or not, good musicians are recognized as such most of the time. At least by their peers. They are hard to overlook.
Bassists (and drummer) are the most important part of reggae & everyone cares about him.
Learning how to do something (playing bass or anything else) is not a waste of time. You're better for doing it even if you can't notice it now.
I don't subscribe to the bass player = lineman logic. In my mind, baseball catcher is the better analogy. It's still not a glamorous role in the eyes of most laymen, but the catcher, unlike the lineman, calls the plays. Decisions he makes can completely change the team's strategy at any point in the game, and the team trusts him to make those calls because he has visibility of the field that they don't have.
Guess who the bass player is.
Linemen, vital as they are, have little opportunity to improvise and if they don't do exactly what the rest of the team expects them to do, the play probably breaks down.
It's a subtle difference, but a difference.
Gotta go practice some slap licks.
I went to one of Victer Wootens clinics last week. He said even he has trouble getting calls to play with artists who are looking for the standard, simple, grooving bassit. He said all he is known for is his chops and being a flashy player never as a pocket player and how those players are what bands really want and need.
He said most bass players never practice being a simple pocket player or work at only playing the notes needed and knowing how to fill spaces and when not to. Those are the bassist's that get gigs and bands want.
I am proud to say I am one of those simple layers who fill in and stand back to support the music and players who help make it.
He said most bass players never practice being a simple pocket player or work at only playing the notes needed and knowing how to fill spaces and when not to. Those are the bassist's that get gigs and bands want.
I am proud to say I am one of those simple layers who fill in and stand back to support the music and players who help make it.
The truth about being a good bass player is that it's not about flashy technique. It's about keeping time, playing in the pocket with the drums, and supporting the vocalist or soloist.
I get asked to play with people who are much, much better than me all the time. Want to know why?
1. I show up to the gig / rehearsal on time
2. I'm not drunk or stoned when I get there
3. I'm friendly and cooperative
4. I play mostly roots and chord tones, and people can hear where they are in the tune
I get asked to play with people who are much, much better than me all the time. Want to know why?
1. I show up to the gig / rehearsal on time
2. I'm not drunk or stoned when I get there
3. I'm friendly and cooperative
4. I play mostly roots and chord tones, and people can hear where they are in the tune
Since you are a guitar player let's be candid for a moment. My opinion is that many guitar players are intimidated by a bassist who has more musical knowledge and/or chops? Would you agree with that to some degree? I got turned down for a blues band because "you can't play blues on a 6 string bass". He then proceeded to hand me a 50$ bass that most pawnshops wouldn't sell and told me "thats a real bass."
Ive had some similar reactions, both for my 6 string bass i got recently, and the 8 string guitars i use. Its really sux that musicians (if you can call them that) instantly stereotype a player for the instrument he plays, specifically an 8 string guitar player plays "djent" and a 6 string bass player doesnt know how to groove, only solo/play flashy stuff,etc. Even some internet music forums are like this, full of dickheads who cant or dont even want to consider different musical ideas. Kinda pisses me off sometimes
