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The Tube Challenge (Volume Two)
- Thread starter JimmyM
- Start date
And Metal Milch, "Metal Machine Music" was written to fulfill a contractual obligation with RCA Records so he could sign with someone else (Arista, I think). You show me anyone who's ever listened to an entire album side of it and I'll show you an insane person
/raises hand
"here"
Whatever, I actually like that ambient droning noise stuff. Guess you probably don't like Link Removed either... mmm, spacey.
"Drone or die". - Darkthrone
Ok so my guess is
1. Markbass
2. SWR
3. B15
OK, so it looks like voting has tapered off enough to give the results, so here you go:
Amp 1 got 26, Amp 2 got 17, Amp 3 got 35. That means pretty much 2/3 of the voters missed it.
1. Ampeg B-15N
2. SWR SM-500
3. Markbass Little Mark II
Most people recognized the SWR, but I'm totally surprised it got as many votes as it did. I'm not surprised the LM2 got as many votes, though, and this once again confirms my feeling that the LM2 is the tubiest SS head I ever heard.
I honestly thought it would be easy to pick out the SWR, and I think most people caught onto it. It's a little difficult to tell in a test like this, but for me, there was a dead giveaway...when you listen to the first walking riff and you hear the low notes hang, there is a certain response on the B-15 and LM2 that the SWR didn't have. I can't quite describe it in words, and to me it doesn't sound like it's in the mids but in the lows, and in a situation like this it's difficult to tell, but in a mix, that response translates to punch, and to me it makes all the difference in the world. The punch that isn't present in the SWR isn't present in ANY SS or hybrid amp I've played until the LM2. I have adjusted the tone controls on the SWR and all other SS or hybrid amp I've tried and I never could get it. And that's why a lot of people like me have always preferred tube amps for clean sounds.
I'm not saying the SWR sounds bad by any means. I used it for 5 years and dug it a lot as far as hybrids go, but my sound is more reflected in the B-15 and the LM2 because I love that punch that you can feel in your solar plexus when you hit a staccato note. And after this test, I feel like the SWR has gotten a very bad rap on TB for no apparent reason. Maybe people have their reasons for it, but so many people thought it was the all-tube amp that I'm now shocked at how vehemently negative many TBers have been about SWR.
Now for the difference between the LM2 and the B-15. To my ears, there is very little difference other than a little extra high end on the LM2 that you can hear in the slap parts. I would be interested in hearing what other people thought, as it's the only real difference I can spot.
Thank you all for participating and commenting. I have considered doing a DI Tube Challenge, but I think it's time to give it a rest. I got a little burned out on the process of recording, and then I got burned out on having to explain the reasons for my methodology 100 times between two threads. So maybe in the future I'll do it, but as of now, no DI Tube Challenge from me. Maybe someone else can do it and then I can test my ears for a change!
Amp 1 got 26, Amp 2 got 17, Amp 3 got 35. That means pretty much 2/3 of the voters missed it.
1. Ampeg B-15N
2. SWR SM-500
3. Markbass Little Mark II
Most people recognized the SWR, but I'm totally surprised it got as many votes as it did. I'm not surprised the LM2 got as many votes, though, and this once again confirms my feeling that the LM2 is the tubiest SS head I ever heard.
I honestly thought it would be easy to pick out the SWR, and I think most people caught onto it. It's a little difficult to tell in a test like this, but for me, there was a dead giveaway...when you listen to the first walking riff and you hear the low notes hang, there is a certain response on the B-15 and LM2 that the SWR didn't have. I can't quite describe it in words, and to me it doesn't sound like it's in the mids but in the lows, and in a situation like this it's difficult to tell, but in a mix, that response translates to punch, and to me it makes all the difference in the world. The punch that isn't present in the SWR isn't present in ANY SS or hybrid amp I've played until the LM2. I have adjusted the tone controls on the SWR and all other SS or hybrid amp I've tried and I never could get it. And that's why a lot of people like me have always preferred tube amps for clean sounds.
I'm not saying the SWR sounds bad by any means. I used it for 5 years and dug it a lot as far as hybrids go, but my sound is more reflected in the B-15 and the LM2 because I love that punch that you can feel in your solar plexus when you hit a staccato note. And after this test, I feel like the SWR has gotten a very bad rap on TB for no apparent reason. Maybe people have their reasons for it, but so many people thought it was the all-tube amp that I'm now shocked at how vehemently negative many TBers have been about SWR.
Now for the difference between the LM2 and the B-15. To my ears, there is very little difference other than a little extra high end on the LM2 that you can hear in the slap parts. I would be interested in hearing what other people thought, as it's the only real difference I can spot.
Thank you all for participating and commenting. I have considered doing a DI Tube Challenge, but I think it's time to give it a rest. I got a little burned out on the process of recording, and then I got burned out on having to explain the reasons for my methodology 100 times between two threads. So maybe in the future I'll do it, but as of now, no DI Tube Challenge from me. Maybe someone else can do it and then I can test my ears for a change!
I guessed wrong this time, had 1 and 3 backwards. It's weird because I thought I heard some tube sound on 2, but then heard more on 3, so I was pretty sure it was 3...same tube sound I thought I heard in the first test (which I guessed right). Oh well, it was fun. I did prefer the sound of #1, but thought it was the SS amp.
well, i finally got out my wife's ipod headphones and listened
i chose correctly after going back and quickly shuffling through just the first 4 notes of each clip
to me, the first couple of notes low end is where the most telling difference lies...(unless this is a trick and you're coming back tomorrow to lay down the real answers, ha!
at first, i had the LMII and the SWR incorrect...
you make the LMII sound pretty nice, man!
i chose correctly after going back and quickly shuffling through just the first 4 notes of each clip
to me, the first couple of notes low end is where the most telling difference lies...(unless this is a trick and you're coming back tomorrow to lay down the real answers, ha!
at first, i had the LMII and the SWR incorrect...
you make the LMII sound pretty nice, man!
I think it was pretty obvious from the beginning that since everyone had the LM and the Ampeg mixed up in the first test, that it would be the same for this test.
People picked out the SWR no problem. But we all ready proved that the LM and the Ampeg sound similar, so what was the point again?
People picked out the SWR no problem. But we all ready proved that the LM and the Ampeg sound similar, so what was the point again?
Megadan, this test had three purposes:
1. Demonstrate to everybody once again that I'm not nuts when I say the Markbass has a tubey sound very much like an Ampeg.
2. Test out a new mic.
3. Prove that SWR, while firmly in the SS camp more than the tube camp, is a much better amp than people on here give it credit (I know it's whiny but it always bothered me to hear such slander when I thought it was one of the best SS amps of its time).
4. (OK, 4 purposes) I wanted to prove that tone comes from the player. These are 3 amps that most people consider very different, yet they're a lot more similar than you think when you hear one person play the same riffs the same way. Even though we can hear differences because we're looking for them, they're a lot more similar than different,.
1. Demonstrate to everybody once again that I'm not nuts when I say the Markbass has a tubey sound very much like an Ampeg.
2. Test out a new mic.
3. Prove that SWR, while firmly in the SS camp more than the tube camp, is a much better amp than people on here give it credit (I know it's whiny but it always bothered me to hear such slander when I thought it was one of the best SS amps of its time).
4. (OK, 4 purposes) I wanted to prove that tone comes from the player. These are 3 amps that most people consider very different, yet they're a lot more similar than you think when you hear one person play the same riffs the same way. Even though we can hear differences because we're looking for them, they're a lot more similar than different,.
Feelin' kinda smug now...
Well maybe that's an overstatement, but there is a 'thickness' to the all tube head that just isn't there in the SWR, and the LMII is similar but seems to have a faster attack aswell maybe (its sooo subtle).
Glad I got this though, since I own an SA450 I should be able to guess which it is, and the all tube head is going to be on the warmer/thicker side, whilst the SWR is going to be brighter/thinner. Very obvious generalisations but they worked for me
Well maybe that's an overstatement, but there is a 'thickness' to the all tube head that just isn't there in the SWR, and the LMII is similar but seems to have a faster attack aswell maybe (its sooo subtle).
Glad I got this though, since I own an SA450 I should be able to guess which it is, and the all tube head is going to be on the warmer/thicker side, whilst the SWR is going to be brighter/thinner. Very obvious generalisations but they worked for me
Yeah I got the 1 & 3 wrong way too. But as I said on my 2nd reply I thought I might Have anyway!
Wrong on all accounts! Not too surprising. I blame this dang cold--ha! Seriously, though, the funny thing is I really liked the sound of Amp 1, and I REALLY thought it was the SWR. I was kind of hoping it was, in fact, so I could run out and grab a lightweight, high-powered alternative to the B15N. Yeah, I know, just like everyone else around here...
Are you going to have the links to these clips up for a while? I'd really like to go back when I'm well and hear what my plugged up ears were missing today. No, I won't try to change my answers! I'd just like to listen again when I don't feel like complete a**. I am open to the possibility that it won't make a difference, though.
Again, fun test and nice sounding clips all, even with my stuffy head.
Matt
Are you going to have the links to these clips up for a while? I'd really like to go back when I'm well and hear what my plugged up ears were missing today. No, I won't try to change my answers! I'd just like to listen again when I don't feel like complete a**. I am open to the possibility that it won't make a difference, though.
Again, fun test and nice sounding clips all, even with my stuffy head.
Matt
Plenty of famous and otherwise guitar players play SS. Judging by how many guitar products there are in the modeling space, I imagine it's only going to get more generic. Many sound great to my ears.
And if an amp just "amplifies" the signal in - what sounds good going in sounds good coming out. Otherwise FOH would never work.
Yeah, that's true...I just debate if it sounds good. I listen to some of this music today and it amazes me how many guitarists' tonal standards seem to be the 10w SS practice amps they started on. I guess I'm old.
Stringbass, I'll leave the clips up till they expire.
Stringbass, I'll leave the clips up till they expire.
Got it right again!
To me, I spotted the Ampeg by certain subtle liveness.
When toggling between Amp 1 (B15) and Amp 3 (LMII) it was like "life on" and "life off", albeit the LMII is nicely thick and full and quick enough.
SWR was then thinner sounding in bass then other two.
Thanks for a great opportunity to re-think or confirm some of our preconceptions!
To me, I spotted the Ampeg by certain subtle liveness.
When toggling between Amp 1 (B15) and Amp 3 (LMII) it was like "life on" and "life off", albeit the LMII is nicely thick and full and quick enough.
SWR was then thinner sounding in bass then other two.
Thanks for a great opportunity to re-think or confirm some of our preconceptions!
JimmyM, thanks for taking the time and effort !!!
It's been good fun. That the B15N is amp #1 has never been in doubt. What surprised me is that I mixed up the LMK 2 and the SM-500. Worse, that I preferred the tone of the LMK 2 over SM-500...
there goes my well nurished prejudice .... 
It's been good fun. That the B15N is amp #1 has never been in doubt. What surprised me is that I mixed up the LMK 2 and the SM-500. Worse, that I preferred the tone of the LMK 2 over SM-500...
there goes my well nurished prejudice .... 
Wasn't sure what you were suggesting here. Are you talking about preamp-out of each of the three amps directly into the board for recording? The other thing I was thinking of was preamp out of each into the same (SS) power amp (being careful of preamp output loading in the case of the B15 since it is relatively high impedance). I know this sounds kind of wacky but it would eliminate power amp variations. But maybe the DI would serve the same purpose. Or maybe the B15 preamp into the power amp sections of the SWR and LMII. OK, now I'm getting a bit loopy.
