The Tube Challenge (Volume Two)

[rooted]

Got them all wrong. But at least found out that I dig the LMII. And the prize was listening to your excellent playing, Jimmy! Great post.

 

[JimmyM]

Thank you, Rooted!

Gerry, what I was going to do was take my H&K Red Box DI and run it in the speaker line of each amp and record the results. But nah...

 

[BillyRay]

I didn't participate in the poll but I must say that I had absolutely no clue as to what was what. I could hear slight differences, but throw all three tracks on a record and man, I'd bet my car that no one would be able to pick the tube amp more than 10 % of the time.

This goes to show that:
a) Tone is in the hands of the player. Great playing. I enjoyed listening to it and plan on lifting the feel of the second riff for a quick number I'm writing
b) Even soloed bass tone can be hard to decipher.
c) Maybe a bit (actually a lot) of hype is given to a certain piece of equipment for a certain recorded bass tones when in fact, other factors (technique, namely) come into play.

 

[JimmyM]

a) Tone is in the hands of the player. Great playing. I enjoyed listening to it and plan on lifting the feel of the second riff for a quick number I'm writing

Thanks Billy, but the credit goes to Stevie Wonder and James Jamerson for that one..."I Was Made To Love Her" is the song.

 

[HappyCakeOven]

Yay, correct

But I would like to thank JimmyM for these threads, not only did I learn some new stuff about amps, I also learned that great sounding amps don't need to be expensive.

And although tone is in the hand of the player, it sure helps giving out a decent sound and now I'm really gassing for an amp

 

[fdeck]

Now I know how bad my ears are.

But I have to share some random thoughts: First, 77% of us chose an amp with approximately flat response. Maybe that's the secret to the "ampeg tone," at least at below-clipping levels.

Also, our ability to pick the tube amp decreases as we listen to more amps...

Among 2 amps, 1/2 of us got it right
Among 3 amps, 1/3 of us got it right.

Dare I suggest a mathematical progression?

Also, about that SWR, try setting the second EQ band to 200 Hz and raise it up by 15 dB. You don't have to post another poll, just let me know what you think.

 

[JimmyM]

Sounds like a project! I think I will try that later tonight, Fdeck. Can't do it right now because I'm too busy arguing with my kids, but definitely later tonight.

 

[Jim Carr]

Thanks for this, Jimmy!

While I got 'em right, I guess it was because I am used to the sound of an SWR 350, and long ago used a B-15 a lot. I have only test driven an LM II a half a dozen times, but found it very likable. Wish I could afford one, though it reminds me of my ART tube pre into a big SS power amp--at about 1/10th the weight!

I must admit I preferred both the SWR and the LMII to the B-15. Not that I dislike the B-15 tone--no, it's fine--it just seems slightly thin to my old ears in some hard to describe way. Maybe it's the cab?

 

[fdeck]

Sounds like a project! I think I will try that later tonight, Fdeck. Can't do it right now because I'm too busy arguing with my kids, but definitely later tonight.

Just argue with them about amps. Two birds with one stone.

 

[fdeck]

Thanks for this, Jimmy!

While I got 'em right, I guess it was because I am used to the sound of an SWR 350, and long ago used a B-15 a lot. I have only test driven an LM II a half a dozen times, but found it very likable. Wish I could afford one, though it reminds me of my ART tube pre into a big SS power amp--at about 1/10th the weight!

I must admit I preferred both the SWR and the LMII to the B-15. Not that I dislike the B-15 tone--no, it's fine--it just seems slightly thin to my old ears in some hard to describe way. Maybe it's the cab?

My hypothesis is that SWR is scooped, and LMII is essentially flat.

 

[Jim Carr]

My hypothesis is that SWR is scooped, and LMII is essentially flat.

Well, that is what conventional wisdom tells us about SWR, and it is probably true. To me the LMII had a more pronounced low-mid and high end.

When I use my SWR 350, to defeat the scoop, I push the pre gain, avoid the "enhance," boost the mids, cut the bass a hair, and also lower the treble a quite a bit.

The instrument I am usually using is my Sadowsky P/J, which is a darker shade of "Sadowsky bright" than the Sadowsky jazz but definately has lots of mids. Maybe I am evening out the SWR pre scoop with my bass and EQ when I am in SWR mode...

In any case, the tones of the amps in Jimmy's test samples seemed to go from thin to fat, with the SWR in between the two (to my old ears).

 

[JimmyM]

Well, great. I was going to try out Fdeck's suggestion with the SWR at around 9, and my dog sneaked out the front door when my son opened it and promptly got hit by a car. And I took a gigantic bath on the sale price on Ebay and I have to ship it tomorrow or Wednesday, so I may never get to try it out. Fortunately the dog won't need surgery as long as we can keep him calm for 6 weeks, but he's got 3 fractures in his pelvis, which translates to about $1000 in bills. So now I'm all strung out over the dog and angry that I got a really crappy sale price for the SWR. Someone kill me!

 

[Time Consumer]

Wow, sweet, I got them all right. I thought it was kinda weird that they are in the same order as stated in the first post. Were you trying to trick us?

 

[edbutler3]

Well, great. I was going to try out Fdeck's suggestion with the SWR at around 9, and my dog sneaked out the front door when my son opened it and promptly got hit by a car. And I took a gigantic bath on the sale price on Ebay and I have to ship it tomorrow or Wednesday, so I may never get to try it out. Fortunately the dog won't need surgery as long as we can keep him calm for 6 weeks, but he's got 3 fractures in his pelvis, which translates to about $1000 in bills. So now I'm all strung out over the dog and angry that I got a really crappy sale price for the SWR. Someone kill me!

Man... I'm sorry to hear about the dog -- and the other misfortunes too... I hope he recovers quickly.

 

[Nyarlathotep]

Man... I'm sorry to hear about the dog -- and the other misfortunes too... I hope he recovers quickly.

+1

 

[JimmyM]

Thanks guys...Bandit's doing alright but he hates not being able to jump around and looks really sad. But he's eating and drinking so it looks good for a full recovery.

Time Consumer, I honestly didn't even think about the order whatsoever.

 

[seamonkey]

Now I know how bad my ears are.

But I have to share some random thoughts: First, 77% of us chose an amp with approximately flat response. Maybe that's the secret to the "ampeg tone," at least at below-clipping levels.

Also, our ability to pick the tube amp decreases as we listen to more amps...

Among 2 amps, 1/2 of us got it right
Among 3 amps, 1/3 of us got it right.

Dare I suggest a mathematical progression?
...

Those are some interesting observations.

From my observation with software modelers, the "Ampeg" tone seems to kick in when you add cabinet emulation. Like an impulse response from an 8x10. They seem to add a mid-bass boost rolling off the lows and high mids. It's nowhere new flat from these cabs.

 

[JimmyM]

Well since Ampeg invented the bass amp as we know it with the B-15, and everyone seems to agree that it's voiced pretty flat, I don't know that "Ampeg tone" kicks in with the cab. I've played a lot of different heads through Ampeg cabs, and they don't sound like Ampeg to me. But an Ampeg head through another cab does sound like Ampeg to me.

 

[johnnydenver]

Can't do it right now because I'm too busy arguing with my kids, but definitely later tonight.

damn, man - you're just plain confrontational aren't ya? ;-)

 

[JimmyM]

damn, man - you're just plain confrontational aren't ya? ;-)

Yeah, I tend to get that way when my kids ask me for money and rides and refuse to do anything in return.