The World's Most Beautiful Fretless Basses ...

[Philbiker]

Based on my experience with luthiers, this couldn't be farther off base. They typically buy industrial quality tools and have far more of them than a hobbyist. Tools that can stand up to production use.

I wasn't referring to luthiers, but home woodworkers (of which lutiers are an infinitesimally small subset). I.e. people who do their own home crown moulding, finish their basements, do smaller scale furtiture work, etc.

Industrial quality "Tools that can stand up to production use" do not necessarily equal expensive home hobbiest tools (typically bought at home depot / Lowe's / etc.)

 

[OldogNewTrick]

Industrial quality tools != expensive home tools at home depot.

industrial quality tools are NOT available at home depot

 

[Gard]

+1

If Kevin Brubaker had to depend on hobbyists...

Glad you (and by proxy, Kevin) don't mind my tossing your name out...

...just saw some photos of the 10 that Kevin did for a mutual friend of ours in WI, beautiful work.

And yeah, if we depended solely on hobbyists, well, I'd be doing something else for a living!

 

[Philbiker]

I LOL'd at that because AFAIK I am a real player and this is silly. The vast majority of time my tone comes through. And IME most of the people I know who are buying nicer basses and rigs are concerned with having their tone come through. It's actually pretty easy... you learn how to play, you buy a nice instrument, use adequate amplification and work with competent people. I seriously doubt most boutique owners are using their basses merely as triggers.

If anything, they're more concerned with their tone than others. I'm not talking about the folks who just show up for a gig and hope for the best. If I rattled off just the local working players I know, probably 95% of them use boutique basses and maybe half of the ones who don't would like to. I don't know anyone who's just using something because it looks good. There are few things more aggravating than great looking basses that sound or play subpar.

Ha I agree about the basses that look great but sound subpar, but I've yet to really experience one for myself. The people who have the expertise to manufacture such instruments tend to know what they're doing.

In my paragraph to which you replied, I was referring not to tone in general, but to the kind of subtleties that Rebop described in his "small talk" with buyers when he was selling high-end basses.

Most of the boutique customers were regulars and would come in weekly to see what was new and spend serious scratch on a wall hanger (PRS Dragons and such). I would also make a lot of small talk with them and they tended to be accountants, lawyers, doctors and real estate types that obsessed over 'tone' and 'tone woods' (one guy even spent a few thousand dollars on a couple of vintage tubes, telefunken I think). So yeah, most of the boutique customers in my experience were not 'players', but there aren't many of those here in Fort Lauderdale anyways. The guys I know around here that are truly awesome, play the junkiest crap I've ever seen.

I agree that tone is important and it does come out in pro situations, that's for sure! However, the really ultrafine subtleties that Rebop's customers were obsessing about are pretty much lost in anything but a very high end gigging situation or a studio situation.

Also, I agree with you regarding "your" tone coming through, and anyone you know having "their" tone come through; I happen to believe that the vast majority of the content of any player's "tone" comes not from the instrument they are playing but their fingers.

 

[Philbiker]

And yeah, if we depended solely on hobbyists, well, I'd be doing something else for a living!

What would happen if no hobbyists bought your instruments and you had to rely completely on pros?

 

[UncleBalsamic]

This is a bit of a silly discussion.

It is stupid to dismiss people with expensive gear as not being proper musicians and even if some are, does it really matter? I don't care what gear people have as long as they like it themselves.

I would say the majority that buy pricey gear are serious musicians, there are numerous exceptions, but again this doesn't matter.

People play what they want and besides, this is a thread for people to post beautiful basses. Your tastes may vary and you may have pre-concieved notions regarding some of the owners of the gear, but this is not relevant to the thread.

Now let's enjoy the torrents of GAS.

 

[spade2you]

What would happen if no hobbyists bought your instruments and you had to rely completely on pros?

Probably the same thing. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that they rely on a mix of people to stay in business. Having dealt with several luthiers, none asked me how professional or talented I was, so it would probably be impossible to know for sure....to satisfy any ego strokes out there.

 

[Gard]

What would happen if no hobbyists bought your instruments and you had to rely completely on pros?

Gotta have both, that's the truth.

There is not a single demarcation line here, it is a constant "rainbow" of guys from the one that puts it in a glass box and never touches it, to the guy that's out there 5-7 nights a week beating the crap out of it. Most of 'em are in the middle of it, and that's the guy that is most important. He (or she) may not be a full-timer, but they are getting paid, and are "pro" to me for that.

The real bottom line for me personally is that each and every person that we sell a bass to is of great importance, and we do everything we can to treat them as such.

 

[Philbiker]

The real bottom line for me personally is that each and every person that we sell a bass to is of great importance, and we do everything we can to treat them as such.

I'll bet every botique instrument builder would agree with that!

I would say the majority that buy pricey gear are serious musicians, there are numerous exceptions, but again this doesn't matter.

Love that comment! "Serious musician" doesn't necessarily mean "professional musician" (and vice-versa, I'm sure!).

 

[Brad Johnson]

I wasn't referring to luthiers, but home woodworkers (of which lutiers are an infinitesimally small subset). I.e. people who do their own home crown moulding, finish their basements, do smaller scale furtiture work, etc.

The luthiers I referred to are professional woodworkers, not hobbyists. It was in response to this: "A home hobbyist woodworker is more likely to have high priced tools than a professional woodworker in may cases".

Industrial quality "Tools that can stand up to production use" do not necessarily equal expensive home hobbiest tools (typically bought at home depot / Lowe's / etc.)

You're right, they typically cost more.

 

[Chasarms]

. . . Love that comment! "Serious musician" doesn't necessarily mean "professional musician" (and vice-versa, I'm sure!).

True, and if the comment was made that most buyers aren't professional musicians, there would have likely been argument, but no offense taken.

It was the statement that these buyers aren't "real players" that ruffled feathers. I took that as a slight and can think of no other way to take it.

I am not a professional musician, but I take great pride in being "professional" in my bass playing. That means my level of preparedness, ability to execute, performance, quality of equipment as it equates to both tone and reliability and all the other expectations that one might have of a professional player. I certainly think I have put in the work to be deamed a "real player."

 

[Brad Johnson]

Ha I agree about the basses that look great but sound subpar, but I've yet to really experience one for myself. The people who have the expertise to manufacture such instruments tend to know what they're doing.

Actually I've found that assumption to not be true. I can't count the number of high end instruments I've been thoroughly underwhelmed with when I've had a chance to actually put them to use on a gig. Some were surprisngly so. I won't name names.

The basses I keep and use are because they aren't a disappointment and bring something to the table for me. Otherwise they're gone.

In my paragraph to which you replied, I was referring not to tone in general, but to the kind of subtleties that Rebop described in his "small talk" with buyers when he was selling high-end basses.I agree that tone is important and it does come out in pro situations, that's for sure! However, the really ultrafine subtleties that Rebop's customers were obsessing about are pretty much lost in anything but a very high end gigging situation or a studio situation.

I won't broach the tonewood debate again, it's pretty much a dead end issue. I will say that in my experience I've seen obvious and repeatable differences. YMMV.

I'll also say it would drive me nuts if I sounded generic.

Also, I agree with you regarding "your" tone coming through, and anyone you know having "their" tone come through; I happen to believe that the vast majority of the content of any player's "tone" comes not from the instrument they are playing but their fingers.

I'm a long time proponent of the importance of the player's effect on his tone... but I'm probably as strong a component that the right instrument will make it far less work to achieve and repeat on a regular basis. It's why I play what I play... I'm just plain happier with what I use.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Glad you (and by proxy, Kevin) don't mind my tossing your name out...

...just saw some photos of the 10 that Kevin did for a mutual friend of ours in WI, beautiful work.

And yeah, if we depended solely on hobbyists, well, I'd be doing something else for a living!

Thanks, that is a wild bass. I think we were all surprised it fit in the standard case, that fretboard is huge.

While there's obviously nothing wrong with buying an instrument just because and I know we all appreciate that business, maybe it's just a coincidence that most of the people I know who own Kevin's basses are working musicians. I have a dayjob and I still average around 10 gigs a month, sometimes much more... so I guess that qualifies me as a working one.

 

[Benjamin Strange]

There's not enough whammy bars in this thread:

Link Removed

 

[Brad Johnson]

True, and if the comment was made that most buyers aren't professional musicians, there would have likely been argument, but no offense taken.

It was the statement that these buyers aren't "real players" that ruffled feathers. I took that as a slight and can think of no other way to take it.

I am not a professional musician, but I take great pride in being "professional" in my bass playing. That means my level of preparedness, ability to execute, performance, quality of equipment as it equates to both tone and reliability and all the other expectations that one might have of a professional player. I certainly think I have put in the work to be deamed a "real player."

Real players is a funny way to put things.

 

[Gard]

Thanks, that is a wild bass. I think we were all surprised it fit in the standard case, that fretboard is huge.

No doubt, that is one WIIIIIDDDDEEEE fingerboard! I would have expected it to need a custom case! I can't imagine trying to play something like that, but hey, to each their own. I know plenty of guys that think I'm nuts for showing up to a country gig with a 6 string!

While there's obviously nothing wrong with buying an instrument just because and I know we all appreciate that business, maybe it's just a coincidence that most of the people I know who own Kevin's basses are working musicians. I have a dayjob and I still average around 10 gigs a month, sometimes much more... so I guess that qualifies me as a working one.

You definitely qualify as a "working musician", and I would say that most of our customers are in about the same situation as yourself. I was until recently, when my home/family situation took a turn that required me to be available at the house more often. Hopefully, things will sort themselves differently soon, and I'll be back out there 8-10 gigs a month again.

I don't think I'd ever wanna be a "full-timer" again, that was a rough way to make it from mortgage payment to mortgage payment!

 

[buckminster]

Real players is a funny way to put things.

Ah yes. The confounding, spiraling fractals of subjectivity.

 

[spade2you]

I don't think I'd ever wanna be a "full-timer" again, that was a rough way to make it from mortgage payment to mortgage payment!

This may again be a regional thing, but I haven't met too many musicians who are reliable enough (pro or not) for me to even consider putting my bills on the line. Then again, the most reliable guys I know are bassists....which doesn't exactly help me!

 

[bassteban]

Real players is a funny way to put things.

I'm imaginary.

 

[barthanatos]

Because you can't have too many Rob Allens in one thread:

And my F#​BEAD Peavey Cirrus (standard tuning when this photo was taken):