- Apr 21, 2009
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Yes, but you can build great bass lines, with the right notes, without knowing a ton of theory. If you can hear it in your head, you can find it on the neck.
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Theory vs. Feel
- Thread starter progmanjum
- Start date
Yes, but you can build great bass lines, with the right notes, without knowing a ton of theory. If you can hear it in your head, you can find it on the neck.
IMO basic theory is essential for success
And I mean basic theory. After that, I believe in developing the ear. I don't need theory to know what sounds I want to make, but I do need a good ear and excellent knowledge of the fretboard.
Victor wooten says himself he knows very little music theory (but not everyone is victor wooten). Maybe the balance is different for each person?
And of course i'm talking about playing bass here, not composing symphonies
And I mean basic theory. After that, I believe in developing the ear. I don't need theory to know what sounds I want to make, but I do need a good ear and excellent knowledge of the fretboard.
Victor wooten says himself he knows very little music theory (but not everyone is victor wooten). Maybe the balance is different for each person?
And of course i'm talking about playing bass here, not composing symphonies
and learning theory helps you hear things you couldn't before. Or find it on the neck fast.
some can, some can't. the vast majority of people i know who have no theory knowledge end up sucking really bad and stick their instruments under the bed until their spouses force them to sell it to stick their own stuff under the bed. those who know nothing about how music works on a technical level and can still play very well are by far the exception and not the norm. or they're lying. don't know about you, but i think justin knows way more about music theory than he cares to let on. he did, after all, play clarinet in school
I have to admit that I know relatively little theory. Of course I know my scales and chords, but not to the point of using theory to analyze tunes or create harmonies. My excuse is that all of my training is classical, which emphasized technique, ear, style, and performance, but practically no theory. Also, teaching methods for jazz theory were still pretty new, and were unknown to my teachers.
When playing jazz tunes, I depend on having a good memory, so I have internalized the changes for most of the standard tunes, and can form a mental map of a tune on the fly while the band is going through the melody. Having the bass come last in the line-up of solos gives me some time to think about how I'm going to deal with unfamiliar or complex changes.
But obviously, that's a "don't try this at home" sort of method. It depends on too many things going just right, and it can be a train wreck when it goes wrong. Also, I think that the scene demands more training up front from new players these days.
When playing jazz tunes, I depend on having a good memory, so I have internalized the changes for most of the standard tunes, and can form a mental map of a tune on the fly while the band is going through the melody. Having the bass come last in the line-up of solos gives me some time to think about how I'm going to deal with unfamiliar or complex changes.
But obviously, that's a "don't try this at home" sort of method. It depends on too many things going just right, and it can be a train wreck when it goes wrong. Also, I think that the scene demands more training up front from new players these days.
After over 20 years of studying theory, I can safely say this: theory only exists to visualize and intellectualize what we, as musicians, should be able to hear.
A wise man once told me that the playing comes first, the theory comes around later to explain the playing. I do study theory, and it has helped me enormously, but to be a good player you need a combination of the two.
i should mention that to me, theory encompasses all of the academic side of learning music, and not just learning modes and how to apply them, which i think is a really bs way to learn how to play anyway. just one more layer of interpretation to bog you down, just one more way of eliminating possible note choices that might sound good.
My feeling is that you take whatever path takes you to the dance. If it's academic, do it, if it's just getting out there and playing, do that. My path has been somewhere down the middle.
But, I agree with you 100% about eliminating note choices. Play first, ask questions later.
never too late to learn, bro! besides, it's not so difficult that an idiot couldn't learn it, so there's hope for all of us
Ric5
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- Jan 29, 2008
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you'll also be a lousy musician if you have great feel but don't know what notes to play. again, who says you have to choose?
I'm going to save someone a bunch of typing and just say this, tongue firmly in cheek:
Musicians that know what they are doing are lousy!
You have to be born with talent and "feel", and if you weren't you'll never be a good musician! Being a good musician can't be learned!
Musicians that know theory, can't have good feel, or play anything original!
If you know theory, you just play dorian modes all night, and you can't play any music anyone wants to dance to!
If you know theory, your music is too complicated, you smell bad, and nobody likes you!
(for the record, I agree with what Ric5 is saying, and I like music that grooves.
Musicians that know what they are doing are lousy!
You have to be born with talent and "feel", and if you weren't you'll never be a good musician! Being a good musician can't be learned!
Musicians that know theory, can't have good feel, or play anything original!
If you know theory, you just play dorian modes all night, and you can't play any music anyone wants to dance to!
If you know theory, your music is too complicated, you smell bad, and nobody likes you!
(for the record, I agree with what Ric5 is saying, and I like music that grooves.
internet and crack don't mixI'm going to save someone a bunch of typing and just say this, tongue firmly in cheek:
Musicians that know what they are doing are lousy!
You have to be born with talent and "feel", and if you weren't you'll never be a good musician! Being a good musician can't be learned!
Musicians that know theory, can't have good feel, or play anything original!
If you know theory, you just play dorian modes all night, and you can't play any music anyone wants to dance to!
If you know theory, your music is too complicated, you smell bad, and nobody likes you!
(for the record, I agree with what Ric5 is saying, and I like music that grooves.
I have a degree in composition and took every theory class that was offered at my college. Whenever I get a new bass gig (pop or rock), I find that it usually works against me to share this info up front, even among excellent players. Once it's established that I'm a solid feel player, it doesn't hurt to let it slip, and people usually say, "Oh, well then you could probably help with _____."
Most of the time, the theory in mainstream music is simple enough that you can absorb it by keeping an ear open for general patterns as you're playing tunes. Unless you totally don't pick up on it by ear as a player, theory just gives you names for things that are already familiar. It is good for helping to navigate unfamiliar territory that still follows conventional patterns. (Stevie Wonder, anyone?)
Musically, it's about the balance between "that feels good, but doesn't quite fit in the harmony of the song" (theory takes precedence) and "that's a great idea, but it doesn't move the song in the right direction." (feel takes precedence)
Most of the time, the theory in mainstream music is simple enough that you can absorb it by keeping an ear open for general patterns as you're playing tunes. Unless you totally don't pick up on it by ear as a player, theory just gives you names for things that are already familiar. It is good for helping to navigate unfamiliar territory that still follows conventional patterns. (Stevie Wonder, anyone?)
Musically, it's about the balance between "that feels good, but doesn't quite fit in the harmony of the song" (theory takes precedence) and "that's a great idea, but it doesn't move the song in the right direction." (feel takes precedence)
"There are no wrong notes" - Miles Davis
The irony of that statement: Miles can say that because he thoroughly understands theory - and - has fantastic feel.
Seriously folks, an appreciation and understanding of both is clearly an advantage...
