Things Publicans Don't Get

[Ox Boris]

1. It's not 4hrs work, it's 6 hours' work. Set-up, pack-down.
2. Forget how much the band is costing and work out the hourly rate per member. Now hang your head in shame at your bleating over paying highly skilled workers the same as the cleaner.
3. Solo acts are great value. Yes! For the soloist. For your punters, it's poophouse and they won't drink as much.
4. Now work out the hourly rate for the soloist. Done? Care to display the same outrage as what you did when the band asked to be paid less than half that rate? And you're paying it for a glorified karaoke act.
5. It's not 4hrs work, it's 6 hours' work. This is worth mentioning twice.
6. For what you get, a 4-or-5-piece band is the best value of any of your expenses.

This is, of course, pertinent to Australia where slavery is outlawed.
Feel free to add your own.

 

[Ox Boris]

The other one I often quote is, I think, from here:
Publican asks if the band can turn the drums down, to which the band says, "No, sorry, they're acoustic drums and they're not even miked up". Publican replies, "Well can you mic 'em up and turn 'em down?"
Band: <Stands blinking, like a character from South Park>

 

[Downunderwonder]

Drummers that can't turn themselves down are 2nd only to guitards with stacks in causing live bands to be losing out to karaoke.

 

[doodahwarrior]

So what you're saying is stoopid is worldwide, not just in one country.

 

[bigboy_78]

My guitarist plays in a duo that gets $600, same venue pays $800 for a band. Its crazy.

 

[chris_b]

I'll agree with most of this so far. . . . except. . . . if a drummer can't adjust his volume then he's not a very good drummer and you should be looking for a better one.

 

[bigboy_78]

There is a point where it's impossible to get the drums any lower. I don't understand bars that book a live band and then ask them to play at the same volume as a string quartet. Then when that band finishes up a DJ starts with bass shaking the foundations for miles around but somehow that is OK.

 

[Ox Boris]

I'll agree with most of this so far. . . . except. . . . if a drummer can't adjust his volume then he's not a very good drummer and you should be looking for a better one.

I have a volume knob to control my "energy". Drummer doesn't. Impossible to match energy to volume and disastrous to try.
I can flail away and disturb no one. A turned-down drummer makes for a limp tune. I'll swap out your bloke for mine anyday.

 

[Downunderwonder]

I have a volume knob to control my "energy". Drummer doesn't. Impossible to match energy to volume and disastrous to try.
I can flail away and disturb no one. A turned-down drummer makes for a limp tune. I'll swap out your bloke for mine anyday.

that's a common misconception amongst pub bands with drummers that can't bring the energy like real professionals can without smashing the bejesus out of everything.

 

[chris_b]

Hi Boris, I play with guys who are on the top of their game and can play with "energy" at different volumes. In the past I have played with Kenny Jones, ex Who and Faces, and Steve Dixon and Graham Walker, ex Gary Moore, and they could play flat out and earthquake loud, quiet and subtle and any place in between that was appropriate. If you're bloke has only one volume then he really is much use to me anyway.

This is the same as guitarists only being able to "get their sound" when they're loud enough to rearrange masonry. If those guys can only play at one volume then they chose the wrong amp.

If all your gigs are in the SCG or Dodgers stadium this becomes irrelevant but anywhere else square pegs in square holes are better musicians.

 

[hrodbert696]

Drummers that can't turn themselves down are 2nd only to gui****s with stacks in causing live bands to be losing out to karaoke.

There a point where it's impossible to get the drums any lower. I don't understand bars that book a live band and then ask them to play at the same volume a a string quartet. Then when that band finishes up a DJ starts with bass shaking the foundations for miles around but somehow that is OK.

Yeah, I'm with @bigboy_78 here. I've played with great drummers and they work really hard to control volume when needed. But they can only go so low if they're playing rock and roll; some things just can't be played with a pair of brushes. And there are some people who will complain it's too loud pretty much no matter what.

 

[charlie monroe]

So what you're saying is stoopid greed is worldwide, not just in one country.

FTFY

 

[gln1955]

that's a common misconception amongst pub bands with drummers that can't bring the energy like real professionals can without smashing the bejesus out of everything.

This is something formally trained drummers learn early on. A high school percussionist usually has better dynamic control than the average rock band drummer.

 

[brianrost]

Feel free to add your own.

Take a vacation from playing and start working at a venue as the booker. After a year of that, come back and tell us how you feel about it.

Disclaimer: I have promoted shows on my own dime in the past.

 

[pwhalen]

1. It's not 4hrs work, it's 6 hours' work. Set-up, pack-down.
2. Forget how much the band is costing and work out the hourly rate per member. Now hang your head in shame at your bleating over paying highly skilled workers the same as the cleaner.
3. Solo acts are great value. Yes! For the soloist. For your punters, it's sh!tehouse and they won't drink as much.
4. Now work out the hourly rate for the soloist. Done? Care to display the same outrage as what you did when the band asked to be paid less than half that rate? And you're paying it for a glorified karaoke act.
5. It's not 4hrs work, it's 6 hours' work. This is worth mentioning twice.
6. For what you get, a 4-or-5-piece band is the best value of any of your expenses.

This is, of course, pertinent to Australia where slavery is outlawed.
Feel free to add your own.

If I'm the owner/booker, I couldn't care less how many people are in the group. How much will it cost and what's the ROI are the only questions that matter. If solo artists or duos means your patrons won't drink as much (which I kind of doubt) then that will show up in the register tape at the end of the night and will get factored into the equation.

Total hours, hourly rate, etc. are all meaningless in this scenario. How much does it cost + how much will they make - that's it. If you want better pay give them a better return than they could get from someone else.

And I'm not an owner, but wasting time chasing the unicorn of fairness does no one any good. Understand the reality, then adapt to it.

 

[jcerio]

I have played with the "average rock drummer" and the trained pro and I have to agree with @gln1955 . The guy who took the time to take lessons from good teachers, owns and uses a metronome, and practices proper ergonomics behind the set can rock like a mofo at pretty nearly any volume. They will also do it without being covered in sweat and begging for a break after an hour. Given, there is a minimum volume for a drumset being hit by wooden sticks, but in my experience a trained percussionist has a much lower volume limit than your average "Animal" rock drummer. In my band we kid that drummers have an extra chromosome that makes them like they are.

 

[lfmn16]

There a point where it's impossible to get the drums any lower.

+1

We played a gig a few weeks ago where the drummer was barely touching his drums. I'm no fan of playing loud and we were really quiet. Barely louder than the juke box. The club owner was playing the big shot for his buddies and told our sound man that if we didn't cut our volume in half, we could just leave. The sound man tells our guitar player (BL) that we have to turn down and he said no, we're as low as a rock band can go. The audience was really getting into the band and the club owner never said another word. At the end of the gig, the club manager booked us for four more gigs.

The club owner/manager has the right to hire and fire; the band has a right to refuse to meet what they consider unreasonable conditions. I wouldn't have had any hard feeling if we'd been fired, it's the owner's club; but I also feel there is a point where you say, you hired a rock band and should know what to expect. FWIW, we've been playing their monthly for about 6 months, and we had a fill-in drummer so were actually quieter than usual that night.

 

[Slinger]

We're a blues band. The actual word "blues" is part of the name of our band. You knew all that when you booked us. Why do YOU think we can't do "a few waltzes and some chart stuff" next time?

 

[Ox Boris]

that's a common misconception amongst pub bands with drummers that can't bring the energy like real professionals can without smashing the bejesus out of everything.

Increased energy = increased volume. It doesn't have to result in smashing the bejesus out of everything, though.

 

[Ox Boris]

I agree with the start of your post. Yes for some drummers an increase in energy does not mean instant and unbearable suffering. They just get a bit louder.

If you're bloke has only one volume then he really is much use to me anyway.

Who said anybody has only one volume?
There is an anecdote about a fictional drummer and everyone loses their sense of proportion and reason....