Things Publicans Don't Get

[Ox Boris]

Take a vacation from playing and start working at a venue as the booker. After a year of that, come back and tell us how you feel about it.

I'll feel the same given that my claims for the band are reasonable and the publicans' behaviour is not. This isn't a demand for anything extra, I'm feeling all fluffy and conciliatory. If the publican meets me at "fair-and-reasonable", there'll be no need for anything in my favour.

 

[Ox Boris]

ROI [is] the only question that matters.
-my edit

That's short-sighted and unsustainable. Or at least, not a growth strategy. It'll lead to stagnation.
An entertainment venue that gets this and looks to improve their "show" as well as running a fiscally tight ship, will ultimately be more successful.

 

[lfmn16]

We're a blues band. The actual word "blues" is part of the name of our band. You knew all that when you booked us. Why do YOU think we can't do "a few waltzes and some chart stuff" next time?

How about the Blues Danube Waltz?

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

The other one I often quote is, I think, from here:
Publican asks if the band can turn the drums down, to which the band says, "No, sorry, they're acoustic drums and they're not even miked up". Publican replies, "Well can you mic 'em up and turn 'em down?"
Band: <Stands blinking, like a character from South Park>

You made that up, right? Nobody is that..., never mind, yeah, they can be.
Love the image of the blinking South Park characters.

 

[Ox Boris]

I didn't make it up. I'm sure I saw it on TB.

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

A turned-down drummer makes for a limp tune

Not a good professional drummer.

 

[guy n. cognito]

that's a common misconception amongst pub bands with drummers that can't bring the energy like real professionals can without smashing the bejesus out of everything.

Exactly. Once you've played with a pro drummer, this comment make sense.

That's short-sighted and unsustainable. Or at least, not a growth strategy. It'll lead to stagnation.
An entertainment venue that gets this and looks to improve their "show" as well as running a fiscally tight ship, will ultimately be more successful.

He's correct, of course. ROI is all that matters from the clubs perspective. The band that entertains more (regardless of size) puts more money in their pockets. They can (and usually do), pay that band more.

 

[pwhalen]

That's short-sighted and unsustainable. Or at least, not a growth strategy. It'll lead to stagnation.
An entertainment venue that gets this and looks to improve their "show" as well as running a fiscally tight ship, will ultimately be more successful.

I can't speak to Australia, but around Chicago the clubs that have tried to make it about the music have gone out of business, so I'm going to disagree. Market forces are market forces and no amount of wishing is going to change that. Yes, we musicians may be "highly skilled workers", but it happens to be a skill with much more supply than demand. Those who accept the reality and adapt seem to be the ones who are able to do the best financially.

 

[Ox Boris]

Is it only I who can see the phrase "as well as running a fiscally tight ship" in my post? You can do both. It's preferable to do both. Why the binary vision?
Your solo act will give great ROI in the short term and drop off. Your extra investment in a band will give growth.
Quality of band a given of course.

 

[pwhalen]

Is it only I who can see the phrase "as well as running a fiscally tight ship" in my post? You can do both. It's preferable to do both. Why the binary vision?
Your solo act will give great ROI in the short term and drop off. Your extra investment in a band will give growth.
Quality of band a given of course.

You can't have two first principles.

 

[Ox Boris]

Yeah. Thanks, champ.

 

[guy n. cognito]

Your extra investment in a band will give growth.

MAY give you growth. It depends on the market, clientele....you know....business stuff. Your idea isn't unique; it's been tried by many a venue owner and has failed often.

Other than that, this seems to be devolving into another "nobody understands what Ox is saying" thread.

 

[FenderB]

I have a volume knob to control my "energy". Drummer doesn't. Impossible to match energy to volume and disastrous to try.
I can flail away and disturb no one. A turned-down drummer makes for a limp tune. I'll swap out your bloke for mine anyday.

That's just not the case. I can beat the hell out of my drums or I can play them with a lighter touch. Drums are loud, no getting around that, but a drummer does have some control over how loud he plays them. Room acoustics have a lot to do with it as does his choice of sticks, to a certain degree.

 

[Ox Boris]

MAY give you growth. It depends

In this case, it doesn't. Because I go on to say, "quality of band a given, of course." I would have been happy to clarify this as an "all things being equal and comparing it only to a solo act in terms of entertainment", but you knew that already, didn't you? You're annoying, not stupid.

Other than that, this seems to be devolving into another "nobody understands what Ox is saying" thread.

No it's the more usual "you cut stuff out of a post that's there for all to see and, seemingly without shame, start complaining about the misunderstanding you just created".
Still, it's better than your usual practice of inventing something I've said, then strawmanning it and thinking you've made a point.

 

[guy n. cognito]

In this case, it doesn't. Because I go on to say, "quality of band a given, of course."

It has to do with more than just the quality of the band...

 

[BassUrges]

My guitarist plays in a duo that gets $600, same venue pays $800 for a band. Its crazy.

Does the band bring more value?

Everyone does this. I have painters coming this week. Don't know how many people are on the crew; don't care. I'm paying for a painted house, not the workers' feelings of justice.

 

[DavC]

i've done singles / duos ... they were not Karaoke acts ... i programmed our drum machine , played left hand bass / right hand whatever , and sang ... my partner played keys , sax , sang backup ... more work and much more talent than most bands ... ( Classically / Berklee trained musicians )

and when i did try a single ( hated that ) i performed/recorded each and every band members part myself in my home studio ... ( mistakes and all , more like a real band ) yes , i play/own all those instruments and gear.
wanna add up those costs .... of not being Karaoke

a good smaller band does the work of a larger one = $$$ = get over it ... ( but i do agree , if some dolt steals mp3 files and just fakes playing , ... they should be castrated )

otherwise , i do agree ... except if you add in these costs ; decades of lessons , thousands of practice hours , 10's of thousands in equipment , music college , band clothes , band vans/trucks , etc ... let alone self employment taxes , costly self-pay health insurance , gear insurance , divorce costs from ' the life ' ... !

 

[sm49341]

There a point where it's impossible to get the drums any lower. I don't understand bars that book a live band and then ask them to play at the same volume a a string quartet. Then when that band finishes up a DJ starts with bass shaking the foundations for miles around but somehow that is OK.

E-drums. Enough said. I will never understand the aversion to using them. They solve/simplify so many drum issues. Use real cymbols If cymbols are an issue.

 

[gln1955]

It's a nice idea, but if hiring a better band -> more profit for the venue, everybody would be doing it. Contrary to popular belief, most owners are not stupid.

 

[Ox Boris]

Does the band bring more value?

Everyone does this. I have painters coming this week. Don't know how many people are on the crew; don't care. I'm paying for a painted house, not the workers' feelings of justice.

Bit different. In the case of your house, it means faster, but offers no improvement in quality. That's not the case for a musical act.