And, back then, us "poor " folks were stuck with Garnet PA's! But, they did their job.
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Things we didn't know or do in the 60's and 70's
- Thread starter Paulabass
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And, back then, us "poor " folks were stuck with Garnet PA's! But, they did their job.
Maybe I was in the minority, but Carol Kaye's bass books (and cassettes) taught me about setting up my own basses. It's saved me a fortune over the last 50 years.
OMG, I had a Bogen 4 channel mixer back in the seventies. I forgot all about that. It looked similar to the one in the top picture. My dad found it in a dumpster but it worked just fine. I sold it to a church for $40. Forgive me Father, for I have sinned.
I had a couple EV 635a mics. You still see them occasionally, in the hands of news reporters from small market stations.
if I remember correctly, Bogen started out making photo equipment like enlargers and copy stands.
Those Bogen mixers were every bit as good as the venerable Altec 1567a's, minus one mic channel. They sounded real good and were very quiet. The one you sold to the church probably still works!
Oh God! EV 635a's! I picked up a pare of those used from another sound company. As you say, they work real good for live television remotes with a newscaster, or for television sound on account of the tiny little loudspeakers they used to put in the solid state "portable" TV's.
Arrg! I got em' thinking they would be useful on a hi-hat or on cymbals, but it turned out a 57' sounded better. Plus, they would constantly fall out of the little clips that came with them and land on the tom toms, etc! Drummers didn't like that, and we didn't really have time to duct tape them to the clips. I think my ex partner still has them. Typical of EV products, they'll probably last forever and be exhibited in some museum as an artifact of a lost civilization. They'll be described as some kind of strange listening device (if you inject low voltage audio in them they act as a loudspeaker) that ancient beings would stick into orifices on the sides of their heads to listen to news broadcasts!
When I was a kid, my band had two Silvertone Twin Twelves and we ran two guitars, one bass, and two or three microphones through them, it actually didn't sound too bad until we turned up.
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That sounds like the stuff we had. Only difference was we built our own PA cabs (haha..what I just said) with 2 Silvertone 12's in each cab. Grill cloth was pegboard. Yeah, pegboard.
The next gig we are saying 'What the %$#@&^*. Can't hear the vocals'.
We ripped the pegboard off. The show must go on, ya know.
Silvertone Twin Twelves! I remember those Silvertone Twin Twelve's. They actually did sound totally credible on stage. Except nobody would be caught dead with them!
The wood cabinet for the piggy back amplifier was so thin that if you pushed down on the top next to the handle, it would seriously bend. You wouldn't dare sit on one. As long as people were careful with them, though, you could definitely gig with them. They played pretty dang loud, actually.I much preferred the Gibson amp I used to rent from Dana Morgan (2 x 12 / 2 6L6) before I finally got a Fender Dual Showman and became a big boy. Me and the other guitar player in my instrumental surf band would both plug into that thing (we didn't own a microphone). Since we didn't have a bass player either, whoever was playing rhythum guitar would just turn up the bass on their channel.
Hay, it kept up with the knuckle dragging drummer we had! We ran that Gibson plum flat out until the chords with all that bass dialed in started breaking up and then laid the lead guitar parts on top of that! It's a wonder everything held together, but it never failed us. Those were the days. "Pipeline" baby!
Silvertone Twin Twelves! I remember those Silvertone Twin Twelve's. They actually did sound totally credible on stage. Except nobody would be caught dead with them!
I much preferred the Gibson amp I used to rent from Dana Morgan (2 x 12 / 2 6L6) before I finally got a Fender Dual Showman and became a big boy. Me and the other guitar player in my instrumental surf band would both plug into that thing (we didn't own a microphone). Since we didn't have a bass player either, whoever was playing rhythum guitar would just turn up the bass on their channel.
Yeah, the Silvertones did sound pretty good and you couldn't kill them, we tried
they were cool to a 14 year old kid like me though, then I saw my first Bassman's and Bandmasters, wow!! Look at those things! My first good amp was a Dual Showman too with blown JBLs in it, took them out and put Rat Shack 15"'s in it, never knew you could recone speakers when I was 17, I bought it used in 1970, was a 67 blackface, sold it for a Marshall Major head and two Sunn 2000S cabs with JBL's, that thing shook everything in every place I ever played with it, then went to SVT's and have used them for about 45 years now.
I bought another really nice blackface 67 head a few years ago and just played through a Dual Showman cab a few months ago with it and I had forgotten how good those things sounded, I got to get me another cab, they don't give them away anymore though. The Showman sounds good through SVT cabs too but I want the matching cab again.
Yeah, the Silvertones did sound pretty good and you couldn't kill them, we tried
My first good amp was a Dual Showman too with blown JBLs in it, took them out and put Rat Shack 15"'s in it, never knew you could recone speakers when I was 17, I bought it used in 1970, was a 67 blackface, sold it for a Marshall Major head and two Sunn 2000S cabs with JBL's, that thing shook everything in every place I ever played with it, then went to SVT's and have used them for about 45 years now.
I bought another really nice blackface 67 head a few years ago and just played through a Dual Showman cab a few months ago with it and I had forgotten how good those things sounded, I got to get me another cab, they don't give them away anymore though. The Showman sounds good through SVT cabs too but I want the matching cab again.
Twin Sun 2000S cabs? With a 200 Watt Marshal? God! That must have been something! You were definitely the man, Bobby! When was the last time you played out with both your SVT's.
Once our band got popular we went to all Dual Showman's. But it did take two of them with D140's for bass. Yeah, for sure the smaller (original) Dual Showman sealed cabs sounded real good for bass loaded with those. The original D130's have no bottom end by comparison. Which you already know, I'm sure. My head was stolen in California and I never replaced it cause I wasn't playing out anymore. They are really sweet, though, and have that beautiful Fender clean tone. I don't know how the taller cabs sound when Fender increased the size to compare with the Super Beatle's, etc.
There's a guy who was selling flat packs (pre-cut plywood) on E-bay a few years ago for Dual Showman cabs you put together yourself. I looked up the add I saw.
Pine Finger Joined Cabinet Kit for 1965 Fender 2-15" Dual Showman Bottom • $159.95
Dick Dale is still alive and kicking! Maybe he would know about this. If it weren't for him, there would have been no Dual Showman!
http://www.dickdale.com/
LDS can definitely build something which would look just like the original, and this would be another source if you wanted one. People say their quality, fit and finish is real good. You'd have to be very specific with LDS, i.e., tell them exactly what dimensions internal and external you want. They seem to meet their completion dates pretty good, and are honest guys.
I also had two of the original Showman cabs which had one JBL D130F. They were called "tone ring" cabs because of the novel bass reflex set up they had. Those cabs are very rare and would probably cost a fortune now if you could even find one for sale. A pair of them would probably sound real good for bass too with the right speakers in them.
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This picture brings back great memories of renting a board and speakers for a New Year's gig, this was back around '89 I think?
We played part of sound check and nothing, all sound stopped, the board shut off, what??? I check the fuse and it's blown. Now where was I gonna find a small fuse like that at 8pm on NYE?
I got foil from the kitchen, wrapped the fuse in that and stuck it back in. We played the whole night that way but you probably could have cooked a pizza on top of that board! When we were done I just removed the foil and put the fuse back before returning it.
This picture brings back great memories of renting a board and speakers for a New Year's gig, this was back around '89 I think?
We played part of sound check and nothing, all sound stopped, the board shut off, what??? I check the fuse and it's blown. Now where was I gonna find a small fuse like that at 8pm on NYE?
I got foil from the kitchen, wrapped the fuse in that and stuck it back in. We played the whole night that way but you probably could have cooked a pizza on top of that board! When we were done I just removed the foil and put the fuse back before returning it.
Good story!
In the military, they would call that a "field expedient" fuse. At least the joint didn't burn down, which is what could have happened. I trust you planned your escape rout.Note: For those who don't know, in a perfect world (no mob, etc.) you obtain a replacement for the blown fuse from the electrician you insist the club owner hires to show up right away and figure out what's wrong with the AC power before you will perform. Otherwise, in the event of catastrophe, your band might get blamed for what happened. Especially if the fire marshal found what was left of that fuse!
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We didn't know, nor care, how much our bass weighed.
Once Rotos came out, we figured flat wounds were gone for good.
We thought effects pedals were guitar toys. Playing your bass through a stomp box would raise eyebrows.
Cords were curly and came in any color you like, as long as you like black or white.
We bought sheet music just for the chords and lyrics.
Once Rotos came out, we figured flat wounds were gone for good.
We thought effects pedals were guitar toys. Playing your bass through a stomp box would raise eyebrows.
Cords were curly and came in any color you like, as long as you like black or white.
We bought sheet music just for the chords and lyrics.
I've been in Peru a lot over the last couple of years and quit the band I was in where I used the SVT cabs so it's been a few years, it's been about 5 years since I used both cabs with a head and a little longer since I used both heads and cabs, was kind of overkill unless the club was huge. I still have them waiting though. I have an SVT head here but don't even usually use that, the clubs are so small I play in out here.
I had the large Dual Shoman cab, never tried a smaller one, the large cabs had a lot of bottom which I liked. That guy who had the Dual Showman cab parts you posted is not that far from me although there is nothing on ebay right now, I'll have to contact him when I get back to MA in a few months, thanks.
The Sunns had D-140s in them and I actually pulled one of the little wires out of one the voice coils on one speaker with that Marshall, wish I still had it. You could feel the air hitting you from those cabs at about 10-20 feet out in front, one place used to call us The Big Wind
. P bass with flatwounds and that moved a LOT of air.Dick Dale, I knew about that. I had one tone ring cab for a little while years ago, not sure if it was Showman, did Bassman make those cabs too?
I used to use a friend's Super Beatle once in a while and it sounded pretty good for bass. Nice tight sound.
Maybe I'll also check out LDS, I really want an original cab though, there was a nice one with D-140's in it on ebay a little while ago for about 900 bucks, didn't have the money at the time though.
I've been in Peru a lot over the last couple of years and quit the band I was in where I used the SVT cabs so it's been a few years, it's been about 5 years since I used both cabs with a head and a little longer since I used both heads and cabs, was kind of overkill unless the club was huge. I still have them waiting though. I have an SVT head here but don't even usually use that, the clubs are so small I play in out here.
I had the large Dual Shoman cab, never tried a smaller one, the large cabs had a lot of bottom which I liked. That guy who had the Dual Showman cab parts you posted is not that far from me although there is nothing on ebay right now, I'll have to contact him when I get back to MA in a few months, thanks.
The Sunns had D-140s in them and I actually pulled one of the little wires out of one the voice coils on one speaker with that Marshall, wish I still had it. You could feel the air hitting you from those cabs at about 10-20 feet out in front, one place used to call us The Big Wind
Dick Dale, I knew about that. I had one tone ring cab for a little while years ago, not sure if it was Showman, did Bassman make those cabs too?
I used to use a friend's Super Beatle once in a while and it sounded pretty good for bass. Nice tight sound.
Maybe I'll also check out LDS, I really want an original cab though, there was a nice one with D-140's in it on ebay a little while ago for about 900 bucks, didn't have the money at the time though.
I think I remember there being a 12" Bandmaster tone ring cab with a JBL D120F loudspeaker like the Nashville Cats used to like to use in their Twin Reverb's. But I couldn't find any pictures of them on Google Images, or references online. A cab like that would have been very rare, I would think. And I may be mistaken, too. That was a while ago. If you had a tone ring cab, in all likelihood I think it would have been a 15.
I do know that at the time, JBL didn't make a 12" bass guitar speaker. Just their 15" D140 / E140's derived from their LE15A. Wonderful loudspeakers, very sensitive and sweet as honey! Back then, they accomplished with superior craftsmanship and very tight tolerances what is attempted today with brute force power, and slop. Harman was recently purchased by Samsung Electronics, so we'll see. I hope they stop messing around with stupid connected cars in India and start concentrating on making loudspeakers, or they will wind up like Boeing.
I sold so many JBL loudspeakers in the San Francisco Bay Area they flew me down to LA and gave me a tour of the factory, and also, of Capitol Records. They offered me a position with JBL as a sales representative, but the job would have been in Chicago! I remember chewing it over one day while I was outside washing my 442. It was a beautiful clear day with bright blue sky, just a few snow white clouds and a light breeze at about 75 degrees temperature. Then I remembered when I was a kid flying into Detroit, Michigan and stepping out of the "Connie" onto the rolling stairs when a blast of sub '0' Artic wind cut through my jeans like a searing hot knife! The extreme cold was literally painful. I called JBL that afternoon and told them thanks anyway, but I didn't want to leave California. California was paradise back then... California girls in black bikini's on the Santa Cruz Beach Boardwalk, baby! We used to headline at the Cocoanut Grove Ballroom on the Boardwalk there:
This is the Boardwalk complex looking from the Pacific Ocean side. They must have taken that picture from a helicopter.
This is a more close up shot of the ballroom from the outside, obviously.
That's the stage on the upper right side of the photograph taken from the balcony that surrounds the entire dance floor. On the right side of the photograph you can see where the balcony stops right next to the stage. If you look closely you can see the railing. There's another big room off to the left with the rounded wall and big picture windows facing the ocean as you can see in the above photograph. Obviously, there were no tables and chairs on the dance floor when we played there.
A much more reserved crowd than we would draw on Saturday night in Santa Cruz! But it gives you a good idea what the stage was like. If you stepped on the brass cannon microphone jacks embedded in the stage floor from the old house PA, you got 220 volts through your feet! Even if you were wearing thick soled shoes! It felt like 220 volts, anyway. Maybe they fixed that by now.
Here's a shot with more people where they had something set up in front of the stage. It gives you an idea how big the joint was. Perfect for a Dual Showman (or two for bass!)
We got evicted from our apartment when my wife became ill (and lost her job of 20 years for not showing up for work), and I lost all my photographs of us playing that room.
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Thanks for your historical post. I, too, am an old D140F lover although i only had a 60W Dynaco amp and a dual 15" D140F cab.
Well, those Dynaco amps were so good they are still manufacturing the cross wound ultralinear output transformers, and hard core audiophiles are still building the kits and purchasing the amps ready made from online vendors. They remain one of the premier audio power amplifiers of all time.
Back in the stone age I used Dyna Stereo 70's bridged mono to run our A7's when I couldn't get the Bogen slaves from Foothill College. Alternatively, we would use a Dual Showman head or two to run the PA. I found that the Stereo 70 was equal to a Dual Showman, no doubt about it. If the Dual Showman had more power, you couldn't hear it. Same with the Dynaco MkIII's you had. Like all the Dynaco tube amps, those Dynaco MkIII's would produce way more power than they were rated at. Remember, your amp was rated at 50 to 60 watts at less than 1% harmonic distortion. That's a hi-fi rating. For what you were using them for, you can drive them to 3% THD and not hear it, and more. They are very powerful! And they sound sweet. Outstanding amplifier that holds its own to this day! I'll bet your rig sounded great!
Thanks, @Nevada Pete, I had no problem being heard in clubs and auditoriums with this duo and my '68 Telecaster Bass...it was a great time for Soul Music.
I'll bet you didn't! But you haven't told us what kind of pre-amp you were using to drive the Dyna Mk III.
