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Thoughts on a Schroeder Mini 12+

Slaphound

Slaphound

Jun 16, 2003
2,988
1,235
59
Staten Island, NY
#1
I'ts been suggested to me that this cab along with the GB Shuttle 300 would help me replace a heavy Peavey Basic 112.

I'm very impressed with what I've read about the Shuttle but I don't know it I am doing the right thing with the Schroeder. Is that the best lightest cab for the money? Should I consider something else. The Schroeder weighs in at about 20 lbs. Much lighter than my Basic 112 which weighs 47 lbs. (bathroom scale).

Also, isn't a 12 inch speaker limited to the volume of the Basic 112 even though 300 watts is pumping it?

thanks
 
#2
There are a lot of options for light weight/big sound.

In the amps section you have GB Shuttles, EA Micro 300, MarkBass LMII, Acoustic Image. Soon, GK will release a micro amp (GK500? GK2?) and so will Epifani. I have a shuttle 6.0 and an EA Micro 300, and both are great, and both are amazingly small for what they produce.

In the Cabs section, look into the EA Wizzy 10 and 12 (17 and 29 lbs), Epifani UL112 and UL110, and of course the Schroeders. I hear Jorg hs released a new Mini 12+ that is lighter than ever. Is that the one you are considering? Bergantino just released a new light 112.

All these companies provide specs of the SPL at 1 watt, and the max sustained watts. You can calculate the SPL increase of x watts as 10*log(x), where for once, the log function built into Excel is the one you need.

The stats for the Epifani say the UL112 is 100dB at 1 watt, and rated at 300 watts. Excel says 10*log(300) is 24.771212. So that says this speaker tops out at 124.771212 dB.

The stats for the previous generation Mini 12+L Schroeder say 100dB at 1 watt, and able to handle 400 watts. Excel says 400 watts gets you 26dB, so this Schroe comes in at 126dB, a smidge louder than the Epi.

Then you have t consider the resistance of the cab. The Epi here is rated at 8 ohms, while the Schroeder can come in 4 or 8. The same amp will sound louder with the 4 ohm cab than the 8 ohm, because it can deliver more power at 4ohms. About double, but not always.

BUT, these are stats, and what you actually get from your amp, and what happens when you go over the limit, and the perceived volume are simply not something you can derive from the stats. In other words your milage may vary. Still, the stats say the Schroeder will handle the 300 watt Shuttle no problem and will be louder than the Epifani.

For sure the Shuttle/Schroeder is a nice pair.

Also check out the famous Tom Bowlus Cab Shootouts.
 
#3
Thanks Fretster,

I cant understand 1/2 of what you are talking about. I need to learn about this stuff so I really can make an educated decision.

What about This statement that you made

"The stats for the previous generation Mini 12+L Schroeder say 100dB at 1 watt, and able to handle 400 watts. Excel says 400 watts gets you 26dB, so this Schroe comes in at 126dB, a smidge louder than the Epi."

Does this answer my question about How a 12 inch speaker driven by a 60 watt amp sounds compared to a 12 inch speaker driven by a 300 watt amp? I would think that the speaker would blow out. I know I'm wrong but why?

Sorry for such lame questions but I do appreciate the help.
 
#4
I think a UL112 would be a better match as it has a fuller sound than the mini 12. The shuttle and mini 12 both are a little light in the low-end so I dont know that they would be a great match together. The UL112 and the shuttle should be great though. There's a couple for sale in the TB classifieds.
 
#5
Youngspanion said:
I'ts been suggested to me that this cab along with the GB Shuttle 300 would help me replace a heavy Peavey Basic 112.

I'm very impressed with what I've read about the Shuttle but I don't know it I am doing the right thing with the Schroeder. Is that the best lightest cab for the money? Should I consider something else. The Schroeder weighs in at about 20 lbs. Much lighter than my Basic 112 which weighs 47 lbs. (bathroom scale).

Also, isn't a 12 inch speaker limited to the volume of the Basic 112 even though 300 watts is pumping it?

thanks
Click to expand...

No a 12" speaker wouldn't necessarily be limited to what a Basic 112 does. The only way that would happen would be if ALL 12" speakers and cabs were identical and obviously they aren't.

Speakers are designed to all sorts of price points and specs. You can find speakers that are similar to the Peavey combo and you can find some that far exceed what that Peavey is capable of.

Among other things I'd look at a Genz Benz Neox 112 cab. Also the Schroeder 1210L is impressive.
 
#6
I have a GB Shuttle 6.0 and will be recieving a pair of new Schroeder Mini 12+R cabs (the new smaller ones) in a few days. I'll post my initial comments for you when the cabs arrive. Off the top of my head, I would say your combnation will beplenty loud, but it isn't going to have a lot of really deep bass. Most Schroeder cabs don't. The lack of deep bass helps the cabs cut through in a mix and the sound is nice and clear. If you are looking for something with a lot of deep bass, I agree with BASSIST and look for an Epi UL112. If you want something that is designed more for live playing, I'd go with the Schroeder. Do a search for Miko's threads. Any of the clips he posts sound great (I'm sure that has a lot to do with the player though) and definately don't sound like the low end isn't there.
 
#7
Youngspanion said:
Thanks Fretster,

I cant understand 1/2 of what you are talking about. I need to learn about this stuff so I really can make an educated decision.

What about This statement that you made

"The stats for the previous generation Mini 12+L Schroeder say 100dB at 1 watt, and able to handle 400 watts. Excel says 400 watts gets you 26dB, so this Schroe comes in at 126dB, a smidge louder than the Epi."

Does this answer my question about How a 12 inch speaker driven by a 60 watt amp sounds compared to a 12 inch speaker driven by a 300 watt amp? I would think that the speaker would blow out. I know I'm wrong but why?

Sorry for such lame questions but I do appreciate the help.
Click to expand...

Well, sometimes, doing the math gets you no where closer to reality. Your ears are a better judge than a bunch of equations! But the equations have a place in life, as do the published specs.

Your question of the 12 inch speaker driven by a 60 watt amp or a 300 watt amp: basically, you compare the speaker rating to your amp rating. The EPI cab specs say it handles 300 watts, and the Schroeder handles 400 watts. In theory, the 300 watt Shuttle 3.0 amp is fine for both speakers, even when you have the amp cranked up all the way.

The EA Wizzy 112 is rated at 200 watts, so in theory you could blow this speaker with the Shuttle 3.0.

Again though, the specs are theoretical, and people claim you could blow a speaker with your 60 watt amp. Not sure I completely understand how, but a lot of discussion on this topic elsewhere in TB. Basically you can get your amp to put out more than the rated value by overdriving it, maxing all the volume knobs, maybe cranking the EQ knobs all the way up.

Hopefully, your ears tell you when the speaker is at the limit, and you back off from that. This applies to both the 60 and 300 watt amps, and to all three speakers used in the example.

Pretty much you are safe with the 12" cabs and the shuttle, if you don't run maxxed out. But you get to pick and choose between the various cabs to get the tone you like. Again, see the Tom Bowlus shootouts for descriptions of how the tone varies cab to cab.
 
#8
I owned a Mini 12+ for a brief while. It was the older style with the speaker mounted on an angle. It was 4ohm and rated at 500 watts. My Markbass pushed 450 watts into it.

WHAT I LIKED
Small, lightweight, very portable.
LOUD, LOUD, LOUD.

WHAT I DIDN'T LIKE
Sounded muddly, lots of midrange, no bottom end

I really tried to like it but used it for 3-4 gigs and sold it. I could never get a clear sound out of it. Went back to using my SWR 1-15.

I sold it to someone in Paris who put it up for sale about two months after I sold it to him.

I can't comment on the newer models.
 
#9
fretster said:
Also check out the famous Tom Bowlus Cab Shootouts.
Click to expand...

1x12 Shootout :D

This is somewhat out of date, and that particular Schroeder cab was one of the earliest Mini 12+ designs. I definitely need to update this shootout with a number of excellent 1x12's that have come along since I last did this comparison.

Tom.
 
#10
bmc said:
I owned a Mini 12+ for a brief while. It was the older style with the speaker mounted on an angle. It was 4ohm and rated at 500 watts. My Markbass pushed 450 watts into it.

WHAT I LIKED
Small, lightweight, very portable.
LOUD, LOUD, LOUD.

WHAT I DIDN'T LIKE
Sounded muddly, lots of midrange, no bottom end

I really tried to like it but used it for 3-4 gigs and sold it. I could never get a clear sound out of it. Went back to using my SWR 1-15.

I sold it to someone in Paris who put it up for sale about two months after I sold it to him.

I can't comment on the newer models.
Click to expand...
The front firing mini 12 sounds MUCH better to me. That angled mini is my least favourite schroeder.
 
#13
Youngspanion said:
Both are much heavier than I want. According to specs. The Schroeder is less than 25 lbs. Maybe that is why its sound is lacking bottom. I see that the EPI UL112 is about 30 pounds.
Click to expand...

The Genz Benz is less than 40 lb. and was pretty impressive, that's why I mentioned it. Sometimes IME it's worth a little extra weight. The Schroeder is 42 lb. and can get ridiculously loud for it's size. I was surprised at how easy it was to carry.
 
#14
fretster said:
All these companies provide specs of the SPL at 1 watt, and the max sustained watts. You can calculate the SPL increase of x watts as 10*log(x), where for once, the log function built into Excel is the one you need.

The stats for the Epifani say the UL112 is 100dB at 1 watt, and rated at 300 watts. Excel says 10*log(300) is 24.771212. So that says this speaker tops out at 124.771212 dB.

The stats for the previous generation Mini 12+L Schroeder say 100dB at 1 watt, and able to handle 400 watts. Excel says 400 watts gets you 26dB, so this Schroe comes in at 126dB, a smidge louder than the Epi.
Click to expand...


Can this be explained?
 
#15
Brad Johnson said:
The Genz Benz is less than 40 lb. and was pretty impressive, that's why I mentioned it. Sometimes IME it's worth a little extra weight. The Schroeder is 42 lb. and can get ridiculously loud for it's size. I was surprised at how easy it was to carry.
Click to expand...


That is surprising about the Schroeder. The dealer I spoke with told me that it was less than 25 lbs. The web spec says 20. The EU112 is sounding better. I do need to go test them and feel them myself.
 
#17
Youngspanion said:
fretster said:
All these companies provide specs of the SPL at 1 watt, and the max sustained watts. You can calculate the SPL increase of x watts as 10*log(x), where for once, the log function built into Excel is the one you need.

The stats for the Epifani say the UL112 is 100dB at 1 watt, and rated at 300 watts. Excel says 10*log(300) is 24.771212. So that says this speaker tops out at 124.771212 dB.

The stats for the previous generation Mini 12+L Schroeder say 100dB at 1 watt, and able to handle 400 watts. Excel says 400 watts gets you 26dB, so this Schroe comes in at 126dB, a smidge louder than the Epi.
Click to expand...
Can this be explained?
Click to expand...

Yes! I guess some terms and abbreviations are kind of cryptic. If you avoided physics class in high school, it would remain an unknown!

Some definitions:

dB = decibels = a measure of loudness
SPL = sound pressure level, measured in dB.
amps = measure of electrical current
watts = a measure of power. Amplifiers are typically rated at a certain number of watts into 4 ohms, and about half that into 8 ohms. Not always. Some amps are rated into 2 ohms.
ohms = measure of electrical resistance. Bass cabs are typically 4 or 8 ohms.
volts = measure of... electrical potential. 9 volt battery, 120volt a/c power, etc.
log = logarithm = math function based on exponents. Wait until Calculus class for this.
excel = microsoft program handy for working with numbers and equations, and it can compute logarithms with the log function.

watts and decibels are connected mathematically by this equation: db = 10 times log(watts).

Specifications published by speaker cabinet companies usually include the maximum continuous power, in watts, and the SPL measured with 1 watt at 1 meter, and the frequency range. Put the definitions together and you can determine the loudest a speaker can go, before meltdown.

Example: the new Bergantino AE112 is rated at 100dB at 1 watt at 1 meter, and max watts continuous is 300, with 8 ohms resistance. How loud can it get? Well, depends on your amplifier obviously, BUT, you can compute how many dB's it will take before meltdown, using the equation above, with the value 300 watts. If you put the equation into excel, or if you have a calculator handy, you see 10*log(300) is about 25. (24.77) So, if you pump 300 watts into this speaker, you get the 100 dB at 1 watt PLUS the 25 additional dB going up to 300 watts. You can add this in your head, getting 125 dB output. If your amp can put out 300 watts into 8 ohms, you can get 125dB of noise from that speaker. If you have a Shuttle 3.0, it is rated at 300 watts into 4 ohms, and about half into 8 ohms, so it will NOT get up to 125dB. Let's say it gets 150 watts. Going back to excel again, we find 10*log(150) is 21.72, or about 22. Hey, not too far from 25. About 3dB less. But, this says with the Shuttle, the Berg will get 122dB loud. Still quite loud.

Not too many people run around with SPL meters to measure loudness, but some gig locations do have noise limits. So it's not a bad idea to understand the math here.

Hope this makes more sense.

Now get back to playing bass!!!!!
 
#19
If you are looking for an ultra light 112, and are getting a Shuttle head anyway, I would pick the Shuttle 6.0/112 combo version just because they are designed together, and you get the mounting bracket that goes with it. While the Schroeder might be a fine cabinet, to me having the combo version that you can carry in one hand makes all the difference.

Of course, when you start talking about considering "average weight" 112's (~30-40 lbs) then you have a plethora of options to choose from. I think the NeoX 112 is great, but so are the Berg's and 1210 is quite nice IMO. These all sound a bit different to me, but they are all great cabinets.
 
#20
Eublet said:
If you are looking for an ultra light 112, and are getting a Shuttle head anyway, I would pick the Shuttle 6.0/112 combo version just because they are designed together, and you get the mounting bracket that goes with it. While the Schroeder might be a fine cabinet, to me having the combo version that you can carry in one hand makes all the difference.

Of course, when you start talking about considering "average weight" 112's (~30-40 lbs) then you have a plethora of options to choose from. I think the NeoX 112 is great, but so are the Berg's and 1210 is quite nice IMO. These all sound a bit different to me, but they are all great cabinets.
Click to expand...


At 32 lbs., the combo version uses a 600 watt head along with the 12 inch cab and is a heavier option to the 300 shuttle and the Schroeder cabinet. I'm not sure yet of the best option. I don't know if the Schroeder really loses the bottom compared to some of the heavier cabinets.
 

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