Threaded Inserts (Steel) - TONE A/B TEST

[Bassamatic]

Clearly audible difference and I feel that the playing variables are largely eliminated by the simple track, as the difference is clear on every beat.

It seems that what we are hearing is MORE mids and highs rather than less lows, giving better articulation.

 

[SurferJoe46]

I know a couple of independent luthiers whom I respect that hold the opinion that inserts like these can be very helpful in curing dead spots on the neck.

THIS!

Clearly audible difference and I feel that the playing variables are largely eliminated by the simple track, as the difference is clear on every beat.

It seems that what we are hearing is MORE mids and highs rather than less lows, giving better articulation.

Makes one wonder if some sort of dilantant, non-thixotropic jell or paste between the neck and body at the pocket could accomplish returning those 'dead notes' to a more normal level of acuity.

 

[mulchor]

Raw waveforms leave me baffled. All I can see is that the decay seems a bit slower in After vs Before, but of course that's largely in the left hand.

I don't know Audition. Is there a FFT or spectral analysis or something like that to break it down?

Very cool project

 

[oyobass]

IME, coating the insides of the screw hole with wood glue (I used Elmer's), and putting the screw back in, (with the neck off of the bass), until the glue dries has a similar effect. I used this method to repair worn out threads, and noticed a similar tightening of the tone afterwards.
Just need to watch for any glue residue that might be sticking out above the wood of the neck, and trim it back to level or slightly below level to allow the neck to sit firmly into the pocket. (New basses often have a little wood that sticks out above level, too. something to watch for.)
YMMV, but if it doesn't work for you, you can still go with inserts...

 

[bag_of_dirt]

Very nice work, stingray69. It's great to see someone doing a little science. How long did you let the strings sit on the bass after you reinstalled them but before you did the 'after' sound samples? I don't mean to be a naysayer, but it wouldn't surprise me too much if the sound returns to normal after the strings have been back at tension for a few days. My pet theory (though completely untested) is that when strings are taken off and allowed to relax, they regain some of their new-string brightness -- something about recovery of anelastic deformation, for any material scientists out there.

 

[stingray69]

Very nice work, stingray69. It's great to see someone doing a little science. How long did you let the strings sit on the bass after you reinstalled them but before you did the 'after' sound samples? I don't mean to be a naysayer, but it wouldn't surprise me too much if the sound returns to normal after the strings have been back at tension for a few days. My pet theory (though completely untested) is that when strings are taken off and allowed to relax, they regain some of their new-string brightness -- something about recovery of anelastic deformation, for any material scientists out there.

Thanks man,

I literally put the last the machine screw down hand tight, put the Rotosounds back on (rather quickly I might add), walked right over to my computer, grabbed the instrument cable and clicked record. I was anxious to see/hear what could be captured & what would turn up on the recordings as opposed to just me "knowing" what I was hearing through my bass amp with the two previous instruments I had done with these inserts.

 

[mongo2]

The question now is...

Which is the best for metal?

 

[SurferJoe46]

Very nice work, stingray69. It's great to see someone doing a little science. How long did you let the strings sit on the bass after you reinstalled them but before you did the 'after' sound samples? I don't mean to be a naysayer, but it wouldn't surprise me too much if the sound returns to normal after the strings have been back at tension for a few days. My pet theory (though completely untested) is that when strings are taken off and allowed to relax, they regain some of their new-string brightness -- something about recovery of anelastic deformation, for any material scientists out there.

Thanks man,

I literally put the last the machine screw down hand tight, put the Rotosounds back on (rather quickly I might add), walked right over to my computer, grabbed the instrument cable and clicked record. I was anxious to see/hear what could be captured & what would turn up on the recordings as opposed to just me "knowing" what I was hearing through my bass amp with the two previous instruments I had done with these inserts.

This only way any questionable result might be gotten around is if the experiment was repeated a few times by going back to the original set-up and then to the revision and back again until the results showed a true trend.

That would mitigate the need to let the strings 'soak' their ambient condition in and relax to the way they were.

Certainly, any spikes in results would be averaged-in and the trend would be more obvious and less arguable.

That's also a lot of work.

 

[THand]

Has anyone tried brass inserts instead of steel?

 

[selowitch]

Has anyone tried brass inserts instead of steel?

Apparently, the consensus is that brass is too soft for this purpose.

 

[pin_head_47]

Really? I would think it would still be an improvement over wood, as far as durability is concerned.

 

[THand]

Thanks

 

[johnk_10]

i think that it sounded better with wood screws, but i'm not so sure that it's the inserts that changed the sound, or just a new neck coupling that hasn't completely settled in yet.

personally, i do not believe that steel inserts have any effect on dead spots. (i've used them before a few years ago on a couple of basses and the dead spots were exactly the same.

 

[selowitch]

i think that it sounded better with wood screws, but i'm not so sure that it's the inserts that changed the sound, or just a new neck coupling that hasn't completely settled in yet.

personally, i do not believe that steel inserts have any effect on dead spots. (i've used them before a few years ago on a couple of basses and the dead spots were exactly the same.

Perhaps dead spots have more than one cause, some of which are not helped by inserts.

 

[mongo2]

personally, i do not believe that steel inserts have any effect on dead spots. (i've used them before a few years ago on a couple of basses and the dead spots were exactly the same.

This was my experience also.

 

[mongo2]

Apparently, the consensus is that brass is too soft for this purpose.

I used brass, steel, and some inserts made from what I think is zinc or a zinc alloy. Didn't have any trouble with either.

 

[stingray69]

Clearly audible difference and I feel that the playing variables are largely eliminated by the simple track, as the difference is clear on every beat.

It seems that what we are hearing is MORE mids and highs rather than less lows, giving better articulation.

Right, maybe I shouldn't really be stating a loss of low end so much as a slight decrease in general amplitude. When you listen to any audio playback, the one at a higher volume will seem fuller by comparison.

Maybe I should try to find a freebie spectral analyzer program and see what it has to say in the way of what frequencies are present and to what degree - before & after.

Personally, I've never used one - anyone who has and would be kind enough to run these through it, it would sure be appreciated. Anyone know of a decent freebie spectral analyzer that is easy to use/read?

 

[chunger]

It's very difficult to match amplitude exactly even if you don't move from the spot you are sitting in from take to take.

The differences in tonality and decay time I can see, but unless it's being plucked by a robot, hard to match volume in my opinion.

BTW, maybe it's a stupid mac thing, but I still can't get the files to play. I'll keep at it though.

EDIT: Oh snap! I just checked post #1 and new hosted files have been added. Thanks! No more problems accessing the audio.

 

[rodneyat]

It's very difficult to match amplitude exactly even if you don't move from the spot you are sitting in from take to take.

The differences in tonality and decay time I can see, but unless it's being plucked by a robot, hard to match volume in my opinion.

BTW, maybe it's a stupid mac thing, but I still can't get the files to play. I'll keep at it though.

EDIT: Oh snap! I just checked post #1 and new hosted files have been added. Thanks! No more problems accessing the audio.

Use the links in my posting. I uploaded them from Mac and played them on the Mac

 

[bassbenj]

THIS!



Makes one wonder if some sort of dilantant, non-thixotropic jell or paste between the neck and body at the pocket could accomplish returning those 'dead notes' to a more normal level of acuity.

I totally agree! In fact my thought was to make your bolt-on a fixed neck by smearing gorilla glue in the joint!

I think what this demo is showing is the difference between bolt-on and neck-through basses. Namely that the though-body has more clarity while the bolt-on is more "punchy".

The surprising thing to me is that you can actually HEAR as well as SEE the difference on the tracks. I didn't expect the difference that great. I do believe in a diffrence between bolt-on and neck-though construction though some people argue it's just imaginary. I think this shows that tone does change depending on what kind of neck joint you have!