Three Fingers (again?)

[wishface]

Can't remember whether I've posted about this before, so bear with me

For a while I've been experimented with using three fingers to pick with. However I'm wondering if I'm wasting my time. Obviously it takes time to build up strength, but I can't help thinking that the third finger just isn't as flexible or potentially strong enough to pick as it needs to be, simply because of the way it's designed. So beyond playing fast pedal notes, is it really worth it? Even then, I find the finger still tires really quikcly. Can't that ever change? I know Bily Sheehan and John Myung use three fingers, but do they always use 3, or just in certain situations?

 

[nysbob]

I've doing it for 40+ years. It took the better part of a year before it felt "natural", but there is nothing inherently deficient with the strength or structure of it - unlike the pinky. I don't use three slavishly - hell, sometimes I'll use just 1 be cause it feels right. However, when you're talking about pumping 16ths or hot tempo 8ths through a whole tune, the third finger keeps me from wearing out.

 

[DiabolusInMusic]

Who's style are you learning? There are different ways to approach 3-finger playing, especially if you are attempting to do regular playing as opposed to just triplets. I use Billy Sheehan's method, 1-2-3-2 plucking, but I also recommend Alex Webster's method, both players are good teachers as well so find some material direct from them. I thought Myung used Sheehan's method as well but it has been a while since I really looked at his technique, he may do his own thing. I don't think any of them use 4-finger technique. I also don't think Alex, Billy nor John use 3-fingers exclusively (but I may be wrong.) As far as improving your speed, it just comes with practice. Just focus on technique and start slow, the speed will come eventually.

 

[Icemanaroonie]

Practice with a metronome, that's what made the difference for me in being able to use this technique. I use it all the time, I couldn't play the lines I play otherwise.

 

[GKon]

I've doing it for 40+ years. It took the better part of a year before it felt "natural", but there is nothing inherently deficient with the strength or structure of it - unlike the pinky. I don't use three slavishly - hell, sometimes I'll use just 1 be cause it feels right. However, when you're talking about pumping 16ths or hot tempo 8ths through a whole tune, the third finger keeps me from wearing out.

^^^ Same goes for me, but it's only been 31 years or so.

 

[Joedog]

I picked it up during my 80's bluegrass banjo phase. It transferred to bass nicely. No problems with strength or flexibility. Try playing with a lighter touch and relaxing. When I really need/want to dig in and play hard, I keep it to 2 fingers.

 

[lz4005]

Any and all parts of your right hand are fair game if it makes a song sound right.

Same with picks, ebows, slapping, etc.

No one technique covers all.

 

[wishface]

I've doing it for 40+ years. It took the better part of a year before it felt "natural", but there is nothing inherently deficient with the strength or structure of it - unlike the pinky. I don't use three slavishly - hell, sometimes I'll use just 1 be cause it feels right. However, when you're talking about pumping 16ths or hot tempo 8ths through a whole tune, the third finger keeps me from wearing out.

Interesting.

There are position where the third finger just feels 'awkward', as though it's not meant to 'go that way'. For instance, if i use it to pluck the Low E string (i'm right handed using a right handed bass), i just don't find i have the economy of motion in that finger. I'm concerned that won't change - or will it? Are you saying it does?

Same with string crossing.

 

[wishface]

Who's style are you learning? There are different ways to approach 3-finger playing, especially if you are attempting to do regular playing as opposed to just triplets. I use Billy Sheehan's method, 1-2-3-2 plucking, but I also recommend Alex Webster's method, both players are good teachers as well so find some material direct from them. I thought Myung used Sheehan's method as well but it has been a while since I really looked at his technique, he may do his own thing. I don't think any of them use 4-finger technique. I also don't think Alex, Billy nor John use 3-fingers exclusively (but I may be wrong.) As far as improving your speed, it just comes with practice. Just focus on technique and start slow, the speed will come eventually.

I use 3-2-1-3-2-1. Isn't that what Billy Sheehan does?

 

[Creede]

I use 3-2-1-3-2-1. Isn't that what Billy Sheehan does?

That is what Billy Sheehan does.

 

[wishface]

Thought so. But I find nothing that says whether he uses 3 fingers all the time or not.

 

[Icemanaroonie]

Just watch a few videos of him playing.

 

[Creede]

I've never seen him use less than three fingers to pluck, except for a little bit in one of his instructional videos.

 

[hintz]

I've only been using this technique for 18-19 years, and its been a lifesaver, haven't used a pick since and have *never* been asked to!!

You don't actually need your bass with you to practice this technique! You can do it on the steering wheel, desk, your dogs(mine love it!!)....when I was working on this in about 8th grade I would tap rhythms on my desk to the annoyance of my classmates!LOL!

But i just do 321321etc... The same way Sheehan and Myung do it! I found that hand angle makes a difference in how easy it is, prefer to "point" my fingers into the bass instead of them laying flat with the body!! Makes for a tighter sound and better accuracy, but it also make "floating thumb" technique impossible!

Maybe try practicing the blues shuffle with your ring/middle fingers? I did this and I found it easier to do 8th note triplets, you'll also find your whole hand moves slightly and thats okay! Try playing with some 80's rockin' staccato 8th note song like "Jump" using the 3 finger thing, it'll give you a good taste!

The tricky part is to get this even sounding with 16th notes!! I just go as light as possible *or* I play on the front pickup *real* hard to get clank...or you can do this slow and accent the 1st note of every 16th note grouping...i recommend the Alex Webster book, would've saved me alot of time when I first started!!

Now, you can get *pretty* damn quick with just 3,*but* you will have limits....if I need to go above 150-160bpms I double hit with my index finger in addition to the 321 technique, so it'd be 3,2,1(down),1(up)! With this I can get in the low 200bpms doing 16ths, but this requires a very light touch and you'd probably wanna play off the bridge pickup for more control and a more even sound...or you can start each grouping with the upstroke of the index, so...1(up),3,2,1(down),1(up),3,2,1(down) so you accent is always on the 1st 16th!!

You can also do 4 fingers, though it can be painful at 1st, this technique makes "broken 16ths" easier, but I find more speed with the 32113211 approach!!

All that being said, you don't have to play like this *all* the time!! For string skipping/notey stuff I usually use just 2, sometimes I just use one, whatever works for ya!!

 

[nysbob]

To me, the idea behind assimilating any technique is to allow you to play what whatever comes into your head. If you fast forward to the guitar solo section of this video (the 4 minute mark or so) you'll see how having the 3 finger 16ths on tap allows me to build up the excitement behind the guitar solo as it develops. The trick is to not have to think about it too much.

 

[wishface]

nice playing.

off topic; whenever i see people playing with their bass slung as low as you have it, i always wonder how that affects their playing. Obviously it doesn't (otherwise you wouldn't!) but for me it's always hard to reach across the neck with the left hand because of the angle of the wrist at that height.

As an example of the difficulties I'm talking about, imagine playing a note on the A with the ring finger, and then the next note on the G string an octave above, with the second finger. To me that's awkward; can the third finger get the strength and independence to perform that efficiently - as efficient as the first two fingers?

 

[Fergie Fulton]

As an example of the difficulties I'm talking about, imagine playing a note on the A with the ring finger, and then the next note on the G string an octave above, with the second finger. To me that's awkward; can the third finger get the strength and independence to perform that efficiently - as efficient as the first two fingers?

Yes of course it can, you have to use it to develop it.
Its about dexterity not speed. Speed, for example, means nothing in context of tempo....if a song is 150 BPM you cannot play it faster, but you can break down the notes used with dexterity so more happens in the same time frame, or if you half time it, less happens.
Sub division is the key allied to a good practice routine.

The one I endorse is hold a coin in the little finger, in the crook of it, and practice your scales, arpeggios until the hand tires and the coin falls out, or any one of those two.
Practice slow and methodical, feel the time pass as you play, then double the speed playing within that tempo and practice it again using the same techniques holding the coin. Then double the speed within the tempo again and carry on as before.
So learn to see the original tempo as 1/4 notes, the doubling of it as 1/8th notes and the doubling of it again as 1/16th notes.

Do this for each new tempo, learn to sub divided to feel more notes passing rather than playing faster, feeling this happening is part of the learning process, and yes it takes time, remember three fingers, or four is about dexterity, which can make things sound faster than it actually is.

 

[Hahaha]

I've wondered if it might be easier for people with more flexible hands. We don't all have the same amount of natural limberness. Some people can bend their fingers back almost to a right angle while others (me) can barely bend them back at all. I've noticed that people with more flexible hands tend to build up speed with their right hand more easily than those of us with less flexible hands. I've had to work quite hard at developing the three finger technique because of my naturally stiff hands. I also have to keep using it or I lose it rapidly. It's like yoga.

Years ago I heard that the second and third finger are connected in such a way that they don't have the same independence that the outer fingers have. I don't know if that's true, but it seems to be. Piano players develop great independence between all fingers, so I think it's just a matter of practice for anyone. It just takes longer for someone with less flexible hands.

 

[wishface]

Yes of course it can, you have to use it to develop it.
Its about dexterity not speed. Speed, for example, means nothing in context of tempo....if a song is 150 BPM you cannot play it faster, but you can break down the notes used with dexterity so more happens in the same time frame, or if you half time it, less happens.
Sub division is the key allied to a good practice routine.

The one I endorse is hold a coin in the little finger, in the crook of it, and practice your scales, arpeggios until the hand tires and the coin falls out, or any one of those two.
Practice slow and methodical, feel the time pass as you play, then double the speed playing within that tempo and practice it again using the same techniques holding the coin. Then double the speed within the tempo again and carry on as before.
So learn to see the original tempo as 1/4 notes, the doubling of it as 1/8th notes and the doubling of it again as 1/16th notes.

Do this for each new tempo, learn to sub divided to feel more notes passing rather than playing faster, feeling this happening is part of the learning process, and yes it takes time, remember three fingers, or four is about dexterity, which can make things sound faster than it actually is.

I've tried this wusing the coin in the little finger, but it means that my third finger can't move. The two are connected in that way.

 

[Fergie Fulton]

I've tried this wusing the coin in the little finger, but it means that my third finger can't move. The two are connected in that way.

The coin is just a focus to allow the ring fingers shared tendons to be gently execised and free it from the little finger.
Some may find it hard at first, but with regular use it will help free up the ring finger from the little finger.
It will also help aleviate, if mot eliminate the "flying little finger" many see as a problem, thou it is not, just another sign of tight tendons.
Normal use of all fingers in say piano playing will do the same thing.