Thumb Behind Middle Finger

[SteveCS]

...
do you think violin players would hold their instrument the way they do?
...

The funny thing is, inf you compare the physical positioning and mechanical relationship between the instrument and the players' body, the electric bass has a lot more in common with the violin than it does with the double basses or 'cello. If you look at a violinist's left hand the thumb generally lives behind or beyond the index finger and for the most part points towards the nut. If you hold your hand where a violinist's hand would be then move it to where the electric bass player's hand lives, there is a lot less adjustment than if moving from the electric bass to double-bass or 'cello position - the only thing that really moves is the elbow as you rotate the arm from the shoulder.

 

[Yonni]

Ive always (6years playing) had the same experience as the OP:

Can you do this ?

View attachment 4964356

Not without creating tension in my wrist and big muscles around the thumb.

When you naturally close your hand, your thumb probably touches your middle finger.

Nope, when I naturally close my hand it forms a fist with the thumb curling around my first knuckle of my index finger. Im guessing the OP has the same?

Ive just adapted to a comfortable position with my thumb more towards the headstock over the years that doesn’t compromise my playing but doesn’t conform to recognised ideal technique. Finding the video Low End Lobster posted a while back helped.

 

[thewildest]

Everyone has different hands. Except me. Mine are the same.

Mine are exactly the opposite... I am fascinating with the diversity we have in this world.

 

[39-Bassist]

Don't worry about what people say.
If YOU are able to play quickly and have stability on the entire neck and don't get cramping or messing up notes. Then play what suits you best.
If NOT then yes try to find a better hand position.

 

[Matthew_84]

Mine are exactly the opposite... I am fascinating with the diversity we have in this world.

Actually, I just remembered that my left thumb is double-jointed at the bottom knuckle (where it meets that hand). While this allows me to bend it further backwards than most, that knuckle does seem more prone to joint pain than the same knuckle in my right thumb, which could have something to do with my preferred left thumb placement

 

[eddododo]

Be guided by comfort and a thoughtful analysis of your joints.
IE- what feels good, combined with ‘does this look crazy or unhealthy’

I wouldn’t think more about it, if the only opposing logic is folk wisdom that everyone’s thumb should go behind their middle finger.

Maybe you need to think about optimal positional strategy if you’re playing jazz and need to maximize your left hand chops.. but otherwise I wouldn’t suffer through much to change what’s natural

 

[CatOnTheBass]

I play with my left thumb (fretting hand) to the left of the index finger. It is the most relaxed position to me.

This is the way!

I have seen it recommended in videos and on here many times that it should not be to the left of the index finger, but rather, it should be placed behind the middle finger, or possibly in between the index and middle fingers.

LOL what? No, don't do that! Very damaging and unnatural thumb position. Sometimes people do that because they want to be like Jaco, but what they don't understand is that 1. Jaco had crazy double-jointed thumbs and 2. Jaco had a childhood wrist injury.

Other than Jaco, I've never seen any successful pro player use that weird thumb technique. Most pros play like you do (with comfortable thumb position).

 

[Slevage]

I would have to see you play some musical passages that would be considered to have difficult fingering and position shifts to make a meaningful decision. Your grip might be OK, or not.

 

[bolophonic]

Yes make a video. Otherwise it’s wild guessing.
We just had a similar discussion here: Left hand technique

There really isn’t any wild guessing to do... the OP is being taught the same strict technique that everyone insisted on when I was starting out in the 80’s. It’s probably wonderful for memorizing scales and doing a bunch of walking bass lines all night, if your ergonomics work out, but it certainly didn’t help me back then. Trying to perform riff-based rock and roll with a fixed-thumb, one-finger-per-fret technique just forced me into even more uncomfortable positions until I figured out that there is more than one way to play a bass. EMMV.

 

[Old_Noob]

I'm curious as to why that should feel uncomfortable. When you naturally close your hand, your thumb probably touches your middle finger. If you are experiencing discomfort, my guess is that your hand is turning in such a way that all four fingers are not making similar contact with the fingerboard. You may be favoring your 1st two fingers. Turn your hand so that fingers 1-2-3-4 line up on the same string. If after doing this it is still uncomfortable to put your thumb behind your middle finger, there's probably something else going on.

I am in same position as OP....when I close my hand, my thumb falls naturally to the outside of my index finger to get it to touch the index finger, I need to angle it over and engage thumb muscles

 

[Old_Noob]

pics....you can see in the second one that my thumb muscles have to actuate to get to the index...its uncomfortable doing it like this even without a neck shoved in between

 

[Old_Noob]

I also cannot play the bass in the "normal" horizontal position because I need to bend my wrist like crazy to do so. So I hold it WAAY vertical with the headstock almost by my ear. And when I sit, I squeeze the bass between my thighs.

This is what I look like playing "normal" with thumb in middle and bass horizontal vs "natural" with bass near vertical

 

[brianrost]

Although I've always tried to get the thumb line up with the middle finger, on most necks (both BG and DB, as well as guitar) the thumb ends up between the index and middle. Seems close enough for me, but I'm sure if I had been through a conservatory that would have been beaten out of me

 

[flannel cat]

I go for comfort over proper.. sometimes my thumb is pointing to the head stock horizontal ,sometimes it wraps over the top depends on what i am doing.
As long as my hand does not ache and my notes are clean and true I could care less about proper.

 

[Altitude]

For those who embrace Simandl and equipped with opposable thumbs: 1-2-3&4, break-out to 1-2-3-4, add pivots and shifts...your thumb ends-up at the level of the middle finger out of sheer necessity. It's conservation-of-energy and minimizes the likelihood of injury or strain.

Riis

This was to be my point also.

But, having said it - Simandl is a pedagogy for bowed stringed instruments where string action is typically much higher than it is with electric instruments. Some of the technique it calls for exists to provide the best possible geometry for fingering notes in that situation - especially with violins and violas which are held in such a way as to create a very odd arm position.

I was a cellist first so I probably still hold my thumb where my cello teacher taught me, even on bass guitars. But I'm just not sure it matters as much on bass guitars.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

Ergonomics are the answer, and yes comfort is king.

There are no universal rules, rely on your own observations.

Traditions are meant to be broken.

Good luck and happy comfortable playing.

 

[mambo4]

+1 to posture & bass position mattering here. Sitting vs standing,
how high/low you strap the bass, and how you angle the headstock,
all have a huge influence on what position is comfortable for your hand & fingers.

proclamations about what hand position is "good technique",
without addressing holistic body-instrument positioning, are incomplete

 

[InhumanResource]

Mine adjusts depending on how far away from my hand is from my body.

First position/really far: thumb behind second-ish:

Closer to body, 7th position or so: thumb a little to the left of first finger

Up high and this goofy stuff starts to happen:

 

[kmon]

I had a teacher recommend the thumb to middle thing yesterday, so I'm experimenting with this exact issue this week. Totally relaxed, my thumb falls between my index and middle, but I do tend to play with my thumb to the left of all my fingers, sometimes pretty far to the left. I seem to have a weird habit of sort of sticking my fretting thumb in one spot and moving the rest of my fingers when playing more or less in one position so sometimes the real estate between thumb and fingers can be pretty wide.

Thumb to middle feels a bit awkward as it does involve a slight stretch as opposed to just letting it be in between middle and index.

 

[MtManiac]

Both right, or left?

Dang, I should have said “that’s all right.”