Thumb Behind Middle Finger

[Paul New]

For those who embrace Simandl and equipped with opposable thumbs: 1-2-3&4, break-out to 1-2-3-4, add pivots and shifts...your thumb ends-up at the level of the middle finger out of sheer necessity. It's conservation-of-energy and minimizes the likelihood of injury or strain.

Riis

One difference is that on double bass we can play without exerting much pressure, if any, with the thumb, because the bass is so well braced against the body. I can't quite get into position to play without clamping pressure on electric.

 

[Old_Noob]

One difference is that on double bass we can play without exerting much pressure, if any, with the thumb, because the bass is so well braced against the body. I can't quite get into position to play without clamping pressure on electric.

Everyone says to relax the thumb, but I find that impossible if I am going to stretch my fingers. I literally cannot stretch them without using the thumb as a pivot. And the response is always to microshift. Well, I do that , but on a lot of really fast pieces where you are between 2-5, you need to use all four fingers.

 

[GregT]

I've been playing bass since I was a kid and I've never paid any attention to where my thumb is. It does its own thing. I just play bass and don't worry about what experts say. I bet there are a lot of people who feel the same.

 

[Paul New]

Well, maybe, maybe not.

Sure, confort is clearly an important consideration, but it cannot be the only one.
If it would be, do you think violin players would hold their instrument the way they do?

In particular, one also needs to consider whether the OP's posture enables a good finger mobility on the fingerboard. In the end this is ability to play the music that matters most.

Violin is not a good comparison. They brace not against the thumb, but against the base of their index finger. Same for mandolinists.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

I play with my left thumb (fretting hand) to the left of the index finger. It is the most relaxed position to me.

I have seen it recommended in videos and on here many times that it should not be to the left of the index finger, but rather, it should be placed behind the middle finger, or possibly in between the index and middle fingers.

Whenever I try to put my thumb anywhere but to the left of the index finger, my left hand can cramp up and it’s not comfortable. Every teacher I have ever been to was adamant that it had to be behind my middle finger, despite expressing my discomfort.

I personally believe you should play comfortably above all else, but I am really curious what other people’s preference is, and where they place their thumb.

Thanks.

Obviously your teacher is not a guitar player. Just to clarify, we are talking about electric bass, not a double bass that requires techniques I can’t fathom.

I just spent the last 20 minutes playing the bass watching where my thumb is placed. My honest observation is my thumb is not in the same spot relative to the fingers as I move up and down the fingerboard. That said, 99% of the time my thumb is left of my index or even with index finger. It is rare when my thumb is even with my middle finger, and never past it.

Further after 55 years of playing bass, I’ve developed an arthritic condition at the basel thumb joint. Like you, trying to keep my thumb under my middle finger made me most uncomfortable.

i know I don’t have the best technique in the world, but I have zero problems getting notes out of my bass, up and down the finger board. In fairness to your instructor, I’m not sure what she is trying to accomplish. Seems to me this technique would really slow you down once you are “out of the box”.

IMO, the thumb should be more like a pivot point as opposed to an anchor, and allow for you to rock your hand back and forth. I will say this that my left hand from the tip of my thumb to the tip of my pinky when my hand stretched out flat is about 9.5” which might allow me to get away with some things a little different.

if you have just started with this instructor, I’d give it a couple of more weeks with daily practice session (20 minutes minimum) between lessons using this technique. If you are still experiencing discomfort (not fatigue), discuss it with the instructor. If the advice is to stay the course, I’d find somebody else.

 

[Paul New]

Everyone says to relax the thumb, but I find that impossible if I am going to stretch my fingers. I literally cannot stretch them without using the thumb as a pivot. And the response is always to microshift. Well, I do that , but on a lot of really fast pieces where you are between 2-5, you need to use all four fingers.

Are you talking about double bass, or bass guitar? I agree, to pivot you have to plant the thumb. I can really comment much, because fast passages are not something i do very often. OK, not something i do EVER.

 

[Thumpin6string]

Well, in over 40 years of playing bass and a little guitar, I have never heard of any rule as to where your thumb should be placed. My thumb is usually even with my pointer/index finger, but may vary as I play up the neck. My opinion is to do whatever makes you play more and is most comfortable for you. That goes for both hands.

 

[ole Jason]

Are you talking about double bass, or bass guitar? I agree, to pivot you have to plant the thumb. I can really comment much, because fast passages are not something i do very often. OK, not something i do EVER.

This is a great point. As long as the hand is relaxed and not causing undue pressure, nerve issues, etc. it is likely fine from a safety point of view.

The vast majority of people aren't playing the electric bass in a way where things need to be ultra-optimized for technical proficiency. If you're playing really technical and virtuosic stuff then it is worth considering those things, otherwise as long as you're not hurting yourself it is fine.

 

[Thumpin6string]

I'm curious as to why that should feel uncomfortable. When you naturally close your hand, your thumb probably touches your middle finger.

Mine doesn't. It touches my pointer/index finger. Everyone is different.

 

[2112]

Everyone has different hands. Except me. Mine are the same.

No worries... we're not here to judge. I only have one left thumb.

 

[Pings Bass]

You can get away with that on bass guitar, but not on upright. Whatever works for you.

For me, I try to use essentially the same left hand technique on both instruments. Obviously I can cheat a little on electric, especially way up high on the neck, but in general I want my thumb to oppose my fingers.

 

[Deleted member 394512]

Interesting read.

I say do what is comfortable and playable without causing long term injury.

You all would get a kick out of watching me play. I have old Army jump injuries and at times my pinky finger is behind the neck with my thumb. I only use that finger high up the neck so it does a disappearing act all the time. Master at micro shifting. Just have to keep the bottom of the neck ultra smooth as I have insane friction near the nut.

Do what works for you safely.

 

[KevInDaBassment]

There's your answer.

This ^

Honestly, if we counted how many well-respected players have some kind of "incorrect technique". If it keeps you from being in pain, helps you play better, and feels "relaxed" then that's what you should go with.

 

[micguy]

You can get away with that on bass guitar, but not on upright. Whatever works for you.

This is the crux - a lot of the "rules" about what it proper come from double bass. Double bas is a very different instrument ergonomically - the neck on a double bass is much thicker, and your arm and wrist are coming at the neck from very different angles for each instrument. What's best in one situation is not necessarily what you should do in the other. If I try to play my electrics with my thumb behind my middle finger, it's far from ergonomic.

 

[Old_Noob]

This ^

Honestly, if we counted how many well-respected players have some kind of "incorrect technique". If it keeps you from being in pain, helps you play better, and feels "relaxed" then that's what you should go with.

Yeah, I am never going to be able to play like this with my anatomy.

 

[Killing Floor]

Both right, or left?

Yes. Both right and left are the same.

 

[Killing Floor]

Mine are exactly the opposite... I am fascinating with the diversity we have in this world.

That’s why I like it here.

 

[byacey]

Hold your hand in a relaxed, partially closed position and take note of where your thumb is. This is it's natural position. Your body instinctively knows when it's relaxed.

 

[N. Kentucky Bass]

I play with my left thumb (fretting hand) to the left of the index finger. It is the most relaxed position to me.

I have seen it recommended in videos and on here many times that it should not be to the left of the index finger, but rather, it should be placed behind the middle finger, or possibly in between the index and middle fingers.

Whenever I try to put my thumb anywhere but to the left of the index finger, my left hand can cramp up and it’s not comfortable. Every teacher I have ever been to was adamant that it had to be behind my middle finger, despite expressing my discomfort.

I personally believe you should play comfortably above all else, but I am really curious what other people’s preference is, and where they place their thumb.

Thanks.

The bass neck profile might affect where your thumb rests comfortably on the back of the neck. A thicker neck might create some extension. Even more so on a double bass. Just do what's most comfortable and don't overthink it!

 

[DrBnz]

I vaguely remember that lesson. Now whether my thumb is in the right place depends upon where it just came from and/or where its about to go next. The point is your fingers, hand, wrist, thumb, forearm, shoulders will all do what they have to do to get to where they need to be. They all have a fundamental basis built around your training/practice. But when the music starts, its a matter of don't be late.