Thunderbird Club

[Camaro69]

@Miles_ONeal and all other VP curious bird brains out there:

Here's the 2024 Eppi Purple Sparkle '64 vs 2017 Eppi VP shoot out…

……………………………..'64 …………………………………………………………..VP
Weight…………………… 9#……………………………………………………………8.5#
Tuners……………..No name, small back plate, large clovers………Wilkinson, large back plate, oval clovers
Nut …………………..1-1/2" white……………………………………………………1-1/2" white
Side dots……………Large white…………………………………………………… Small white
Hardware…………..Same on both Tbirds………………………………………Same on both Tbirds
Neck rake…………. 3/8" from body to top of fret board at heel………..1/4" from body to top of fret board
Bridge………………3/8" gap from bottom of bridge to body…………….1/4" gap between bridge and body
Pickup height…. 3/32" Neck, 4/32" bridge gap to strings……………2/32" neck, 3/32" bridge gap to strings
Body thickness…..1-3/8" to 1-3/16" wing taper……………………………1-1/4" to 1-3/16" wing taper
…………………………1-9/16" thick neck block……………………………..…. 1-9/16" thick neck block
Action………….. …..5/64" at 12th fret on open E…………………………….5/64" at 12th fret on open E
Pickguard…………..White black white 3 ply…………………………………….White black white 3 ply
Design flaws……. Edge of pickguard higher than center block……..None


Three song in mix sound test with each bass set at 9,5,5 (neck, bridge, tone) played finger style only, directly over neck pickup.
The songs are attached for your enjoyment, but unfortunately no way to record the basses just yet*




……………………………………64………………………………………………………………………..VP
On Fire……………Perfect match for the song……………………Good but a bit too bright on the high notes
The Breeze……..Would have liked a tighter E string…………A string sounded thin compared to E string
Patterns…………..needs more definition on E string………….Perfect match for the song
……………………….Tone setting at 8 was perfect match

Bottom line:
Both basses are outstanding sounding gems, and they both play equally well. For some reason I can play with a bit more ease on the 64, possibly lower string tension. Otherwise, physically they are very similar basses.

The tuners on the VP look higher grade but both models work just fine. The weight is a tad higher on the 64 but that may not hold true for all examples. The neck on the 64 has more rake but it's not noticable when playing. The steeper rake does require a higher bridge setting, but again it's not noticable when playing. The pickguard on the VP sits flush or slightly lower than the center block as it should. The 64 pickguard should be a one or two layer guard, in its current 3 layer set up the long edge of the guard that runs along the side of the center block is actually higher than the center block. Aesthetically an issue for me, but could be a real no go for individuals that do windmills or slapping or other highly energetic playing. On the three sound tests the 64 sounded best on each one (although I did have to dial in more treble on the 64 on the last song to get it to sound better than the VP).

If both were the same price I'd buy the 64. If I already had a VP I might consider buying the 64 as an upgrade if I had $800 burning an hole in my pocket, and selling the VP or setting the VP up for different tunings or string selections. But both are great basses, you can't go wrong with either one.

*I have purchased some of the hardware and software necessary for recording my basses, so hopefully in the next couple of months I can provide sound tracks vs just descriptions.

You're making me want to spend money I don't have
So I reported your post!

 

[AllieCat]

I've always been a finger player, but after a 13year hiatus from playing at all between '98 and '11, when I got back into a band situation I decided to make myself play pick only. I did that for about a year and got "OK" at it. Then I went back to fingerstyle. My trouble is string muting. I naturally can keep the open / unplayed strings quiet when playing fingerstyle but not always when using a pick. Palm muting is terribly awkward for me. In an effort to improve my pick playing, a generally always use a pick when I'm quietly playing my short scale basses (which I do often) at home in the living room. But still palm muting is just plain difficult for me.

You can always try muting with your fretting hand. I do a mix of the two, holding down a fret on one string and using the free digits to mute higher strings, while my palm is muting the lower strings unless I'm playing on the E. Sometimes my thumb comes around to mute the E instead of using my palm. Just whatever feels right in the moment.

At first I only played with a pick. Then I only played finger. I'm working on pick again, but without dropping finger. Both have their place.

Both definitely have their place, which is why I try to work on fingerstyle. Just feels less natural for me at this point, but I don't care to play pick on songs where it sounds wrong.

In a way though, I'd rather be able to identify a deficiency in myself and work on it, than be aimless when it comes to what I need to work on.

 

[dagrev]

I could play ok with a pick when I was a kid. Took a long sabbatical until about a decade or so ago. Came back finger style only. I work on getting into a pick groove again in fits and starts. I probably ought to to find a teacher to get good at it. If Chucky wasn't three hours away, I'd con him into giving me some lessons. Once I do my Johnny paycheck, that is top on the list to work on. Two of my favorite players, Nikki Monninger and Sir Paul, are why I want to get really good at it.

You also played guitar. You can do. Just start doing it until it feels normal. Force your self. (This is key.) The next time you pick a bass up to noodle, only do so with a pick for the next few times or every other time. The more you do it, the quicker it will come back to you. You'll be pickin' and clickin' in no time.

 

[dagrev]

Black Beauties feel and sound good, too.

Yes they do.

 

[Camaro69]

You can always try muting with your fretting hand. I do a mix of the two, holding down a fret on one string and using the free digits to mute higher strings, while my palm is muting the lower strings unless I'm playing on the E. Sometimes my thumb comes around to mute the E instead of using my palm. Just whatever feels right in the moment.



Both definitely have their place, which is why I try to work on fingerstyle. Just feels less natural for me at this point, but I don't care to play pick on songs where it sounds wrong.

In a way though, I'd rather be able to identify a deficiency in myself and work on it, than be aimless when it comes to what I need to work on.

I'm like that as well. If the original song was played one way, I try my best to play it that way

To stay true to the song? Maybe
It is a good way to master the techniques though

 

[dagrev]

I've always been a finger player, but after a 13year hiatus from playing at all between '98 and '11, when I got back into a band situation I decided to make myself play pick only. I did that for about a year and got "OK" at it. Then I went back to fingerstyle. My trouble is string muting. I naturally can keep the open / unplayed strings quiet when playing fingerstyle but not always when using a pick. Palm muting is terribly awkward for me. In an effort to improve my pick playing, a generally always use a pick when I'm quietly playing my short scale basses (which I do often) at home in the living room. But still palm muting is just plain difficult for me.

These days I'm probably 60% fingers 40% pick. Depends. I can play anything we do either way. Typically things with 8th or 16th driving notes get a pick, but not always by any means. That's just the one time I have a preference and lean towards a pick.

 

[dagrev]

You're making me want to spend money I don't have
So I reported your post!

If this is the plan of action, everyone here will end up in internet jail for life.

 

[AllieCat]

I'm like that as well. If the original song was played one way, I try my best to play it that way

To stay true to the song? Maybe
It is a good way to master the techniques though

Yeah, I've heard it described as "serving the music."

I look at it as a way to sort of learn from the greats. If you can practice a technique over and over again until it sounds like what they were putting down, by the end of it you will have learned something new, maybe even unlocked a whole new way to look at the instrument.

As in most things, we stand on the shoulders of giants as they say.

These days I'm probably 60% fingers 40% pick. Depends. I can play anything we do either way. Typically things with 8th or 16th driving notes get a pick, but not always by any means. That's just the one time I have a preference and lean towards a pick.

This is an area I struggle with, consistent and accurate 8th and 16ths playing fingerstyle. With a pick, I'm good to go, unless I need to do some Dee Dee Ramone style downpicking hahah

 

[MCF]

I've always been a finger player, but after a 13year hiatus from playing at all between '98 and '11, when I got back into a band situation I decided to make myself play pick only. I did that for about a year and got "OK" at it. Then I went back to fingerstyle. My trouble is string muting. I naturally can keep the open / unplayed strings quiet when playing fingerstyle but not always when using a pick. Palm muting is terribly awkward for me. In an effort to improve my pick playing, a generally always use a pick when I'm quietly playing my short scale basses (which I do often) at home in the living room. But still palm muting is just plain difficult for me.

You're giving me hope Rich. I like your playing. Knowing it isn't just me is a huge motivation to keep working on the things that are difficult.

 

[Chucky Stiletti]

I have fits with a pick, but it's one of the things I should "just do." Even if I'm screwing up a few notes, what counts is your note *choice*, phrasing and timing, for me anyway. So missing a note, having to make it work anyway doesn't necessarily affect the outcome of a song or a band performance. The mistakes I make ding up my ego a bit, but don't really ruin anything else. I can take that, even though I don't necessarily like it... And when it does go well, it's gratifying, and fun to do something new that works.

some of the best grooves started out with that "missing" note...

 

[MCF]

I have fits with a pick, but it's one of the things I should "just do." Even if I'm screwing up a few notes, what counts is your note *choice*, phrasing and timing, for me anyway. So missing a note, having to make it work anyway doesn't necessarily affect the outcome of a song or a band performance. The mistakes I make ding up my ego a bit, but don't really ruin anything else. I can take that, even though I don't necessarily like it... And when it does go well, it's gratifying, and fun to do something new that works.

I did not realize other players as good as many here are, find it to be a challenge like I do. Thanks Roger.

 

[Chucky Stiletti]

You're giving me hope Rich. I like your playing. Knowing it isn't just me is a huge motivation to keep working on the thins that are difficult.

there's always hope Marshall..,,

 

[Camaro69]

If this is the plan of action, everyone here will end up in internet jail for life.

Then we will be the prison gang we've always been accused of being!
yay team!

 

[Camaro69]

I've always been a finger player, but after a 13year hiatus from playing at all between '98 and '11, when I got back into a band situation I decided to make myself play pick only. I did that for about a year and got "OK" at it. Then I went back to fingerstyle. My trouble is string muting. I naturally can keep the open / unplayed strings quiet when playing fingerstyle but not always when using a pick. Palm muting is terribly awkward for me. In an effort to improve my pick playing, a generally always use a pick when I'm quietly playing my short scale basses (which I do often) at home in the living room. But still palm muting is just plain difficult for me.

Years ago when I was starting to use a pick, V told me to grip it and rip it
or something like that

I have learned to short-chuck the pick and dampen the strings with my picking hand a bit. Probably not a proper technique
If it's something 100% muted like "It's still rock and roll" by Billy Joel, I kinda come a bit more from the tail end of the bass so I can get more palm on there

I also have the hands and arms of a midget so take that into account

 

[Miles_ONeal]

You can always try muting with your fretting hand. I do a mix of the two, holding down a fret on one string and using the free digits to mute higher strings, while my palm is muting the lower strings unless I'm playing on the E. Sometimes my thumb comes around to mute the E instead of using my palm. Just whatever feels right in the moment.



Both definitely have their place, which is why I try to work on fingerstyle. Just feels less natural for me at this point, but I don't care to play pick on songs where it sounds wrong.

In a way though, I'd rather be able to identify a deficiency in myself and work on it, than be aimless when it comes to what I need to work on.

Agreed on all of this.

 

[Miles_ONeal]

You also played guitar. You can do. Just start doing it until it feels normal. Force your self. (This is key.) The next time you pick a bass up to noodle, only do so with a pick for the next few times or every other time. The more you do it, the quicker it will come back to you. You'll be pickin' and clickin' in no time.

He's pickin' and you're grinnin'?

 

[Miles_ONeal]

Years ago when I was starting to use a pick, V told me to grip it and rip it
or something like that

I have learned to short-chuck the pick and dampen the strings with my picking hand a bit. Probably not a proper technique
If it's something 100% muted like "It's still rock and roll" by Billy Joel, I kinda come a bit more from the tail end of the bass so I can get more palm on there

I also have the hands and arms of a midget so take that into account

My pick grip on bass turned out very different than on guitar. For bass, i tend to play with a "top" (rounded) corner of a stiff pick (Dunlop Tortex standard purple (1.14mm) with very little pick protruding. For guitar I typically played the Tortex standard orange (.6mm) with more protruding. When I could find "shark" picks or stainless picks the size of the Dunlops, I used those.

 

[Camaro69]

My pick grip on bass turned out very different than on guitar. For bass, i tend to play with a "top" (rounded) corner of a stiff pick (Dunlop Tortex standard purple (1.14mm) with very little pick protruding. For guitar I typically played the Tortex standard orange (.6mm) with more protruding. When I could find "shark" picks or stainless picks the size of the Dunlops, I used those.

Strangely enough, I've gone the other way and now am on the Fender medium bandwagon, and rarely use the round over
Maybe I need to play more Texas music

 

[AllieCat]

My pick grip on bass turned out very different than on guitar. For bass, i tend to play with a "top" (rounded) corner of a stiff pick (Dunlop Tortex standard purple (1.14mm) with very little pick protruding. For guitar I typically played the Tortex standard orange (.6mm) with more protruding. When I could find "shark" picks or stainless picks the size of the Dunlops, I used those.

I play with the sharper tip. I've been a long time fan of the 2.0mm Gator Grip for bass, and the .96mm Gator Grip for guitar. My grip is a little non-standard though. Rather than curling my index finger and using the side of it to hold the pick to my thumb, I use the pad of my index and middle fingers and hold the pick at an angle (probably slightly less than 45°) relative to the strings, such that only one edge of the pick is in contact with the string. Ends up wearing a little ramp into each side of the pick and eventually there's a little flat spot at the tip.

 

[Stealth57]

some of the best grooves started out with that "missing" note...

Rasta man drop one.