Thunderbird Club

[TBird1958]

I don’t really know much of anything about these Thunderbirds. Is there a primer on what they’re all about? I do see different body styles and it’s all just a little confusing for me. Do they all have the same scale length? All have similar electronics/tone?

We really enjoy a good question like this here, seriously, we do
I'll come back tomorrow and add my .02, gotta hit the rack 'cause the alarm goes off at 4:25AM

 

[AllieCat]

I don’t really know much of anything about these Thunderbirds. Is there a primer on what they’re all about? I do see different body styles and it’s all just a little confusing for me. Do they all have the same scale length? All have similar electronics/tone?

So, others may be more qualified to do a proper write up on the T-bird than me but I'll give you my take on it anyways.

In the early 1960's, Fender was a leader in the market and Gibson wanted something premium and modern to compete. Through a chance meeting, a Gibson executive wound up inviting retired automotive and custom coach designer Raymond Dietrich, known for his work with Lincoln, Chrysler, and Checker Taxi, to come and design a guitar. What they wound up with were the "Reverse Body" Firebird guitars and Thunderbird basses released in 1963. There was a Firebird I, III, and V, and a Thunderbird II and IV. Both instruments in their original form used a laminated through-neck construction similar to a Rickenbacker, with a pair of wings glued to the sides of the body, and a slightly raised center section. The Thunderbird II had a single humbucking pickup, volume, and tone pot, while the more premium IV model got two humbuckers, two volume pots, and a master tone. As far as I know all of the Gibson pickups used rails rather than individual poles.

Later on, after a lawsuit brought by Fender, Gibson changed the Thunderbird (and Firebird) models to what's known as the "Non-Reverse Body", which I would argue more closely resembles Fender's "offset" body styles like the Jaguar and Jazzmaster. These instruments offer similar specs to the earlier iteration, but using set-neck construction like a Les Paul or SG. The Non-Reverse birds also have a completely flat front to the body with no raised center section. These were produced from 1966 to 1969.

The Reverse Body Thunderbird IV came back in 1976 as the Bicentennial Thunderbird, and ran until 1979, and I'd say all modern T-birds are arguably reissues and re-imaginings of the Bird.

Famous Thunderbird players include names like Justin Chancellor (Tool), Les Claypool (Primus), Kim Gordon (Sonic Youth), Glenn Cornick (Jethro Tull), Krist Novoselic (Nirvana), Peter Hook (New Order), Kim Deal (Pixies), Adam Clayton (U2), Pete Way (UFO), John Entwistle (The Who), just to name a few.

Today, Thunderbirds can be found from a variety of US and foreign manufacturers, each with their own unique character. Not all use through-neck construction, some are even bolt-ons.

A fairly comprehensive list of manufacturers and models can be found here.

Departing from the history, I find them to be a fairly versatile bass. They tend to be favored by rock musicians, and play well with a pick and fingerstyle. You can get a fairly diverse range of tones out of them, though they're mostly renowned for a sort of punchy bottom-heavy tone with excellent sustain in many circles. The scale length tends to be 34", with 20 frets, four strings, though short scales and extended range examples have been produced.

The bridge is located a few inches in fron the bottom of the body, and the headstocks can be on the large side, so what results is a standard scale length bass that feels like it;s even longer. If you're used to a P-bass, a Thunderbird is probably going to feel like a much bigger instrument in the hands, which can either be a drawback, or it might be a reason to be drawn to the instrument. They tend to be comfortable to play sitting down as well as standing up. Rumors of neck-dive are slightly eggagerated and the issue that is there is easily rectified with proper strap button placement( which the factory may not actually have done for you sadly) and strap selection.

There's kinda a love it or hate it thing going on with the Thunderbird (and apparently the Firebird too), making it kind of a polarizing name in the bass world.

I like them enough to have three, though. If you're considering getting in to one however, as always I'd suggest going to a few stores and playing a few of them before jumping in headfirst.

 

[Bighouse]

As there seems to be a community that really loves them, are there particular features/finishes/years that are particularly desirable? I’ll be honest and say that the body styles and headstock puzzle the heck out of me. I’m not enamored with their appearance, but I’m wondering if they’r an acquired taste kind of thing…it’s not a “love at first sight” kind of thing for me. The look mentally and physically awkward- but still I hear a small voice inside my head that says “hmmm…could be interesting”.

 

[AllieCat]

As there seems to be a community that really loves them, are there particular features/finishes/years that are particularly desirable? I’ll be honest and say that the body styles and headstock puzzle the heck out of me. I’m not enamored with their appearance, but I’m wondering if they’r an acquired taste kind of thing…it’s not a “love at first sight” kind of thing for me. The look mentally and physically awkward- but still I hear a small voice inside my head that says “hmmm…could be interesting”.

I don't really find them to be awkward at all. My first bass was P-style, and transitioning from that to a Thunderbird wasn't a problem. Some people will complain about access to the higher frets, but I think that's mostly a perception thing more than a real issue, I can reach all the way up to the 20th fret on the lowest string and I wear size small gloves so I'm not sure there's a there there.

Personally I was drawn to the T-bird because I thought it looked cool, and then once I had one I fell in love. They don't even look all that wild to me, especially in the context of the time and place they originate. There have been Explorer and Flying V basses made that to my eyes look like they'd be much harder to manage.

During the original run, they could be ordered in the Gibson custom colors, and some were. Same goes for the original Non-Reverse model. They can be had in lots of finishes today. Gibsons tend to wear nitro, Epiphones poly, I can't speak for any of the other makers.

Some people like their vintage birds, some people seem to think the modern ones are some of the best you can get.

The Epiphone Vintage Pro, 60's Thunderbird, and '64 Thunderbird models from the last 8-ish years seem to be highly regarded and can be found at really affordable prices.

If you're curious, I say go around to some guitar shops and try some on, you may hate it, you may have a new obsession.

 

[Bighouse]

When I look on Reverb, all the IIs seem to be Ephiphone labeled and the IV seem to be Gibson labeled. Is that typical or did I screw up my search?

 

[AllieCat]

When I look on Reverb, all the IIs seem to be Ephiphone labeled and the IV seem to be Gibson labeled. Is that typical or did I screw up my search?

You might find that you're mistaken. I'm not aware of any factory Epiphone II's. Coming from Gibson in the 60's, if it has one pickup, it's a II, and if it has two pickup's, it's a IV, this was to dovetail with the Firebird's I, III, and V models with higher numbers being fancier, higher spec models. It's probably worth pointing out that generally single pickup Thunderbirds are less common, both among vintage basses, but especially with modern/reissue examples.

Some boutique manufacturers and overseas brands have done II's, but by and large they'll be vintage Gibson from what I've seen.

In the modern day, you might find IV being used to refer to string count, and "Thunderbird V" can be used by the community to refer to 5-string basses.

The basic Epiphone Thunderbird IV, now renamed the Thunderbird E1, is one of the most affordable Thunderbirds, featuring a bolt-on neck. They go for about $450 USD brand new, so don't let anyone put you over the barrel for one of those.

If you're looking for something more like a classic neck through constructed reverse body Thunderbird IV, you probably want to look for the Epiphone "64 Thunderbird", "60's Thunderbird", or "Vintage Pro" models.

The Epiphone "64 Thunderbird" is their current production neck through model and MSRP's at about $850 USD currently. Comes with a gig bag, but they sell a nice tolex case separately.

They're super diverse though, and you can find oddball stuff if you dig deep. I think Epiphone even did some non-reverse bodies with P/J pickup sets out of Korea in the 90's.

 

[dagrev]

I don’t really know much of anything about these Thunderbirds. Is there a primer on what they’re all about? I do see different body styles and it’s all just a little confusing for me. Do they all have the same scale length? All have similar electronics/tone?

Someone likely has provided a better answer already, but.... Yes, unfortunately it's in the 15k+ pages here! This is brain trust for Thunderbirds. Literally most important Thunderbird information that is known is here...somewhere amongst the many minor diversions. Generally because a question was asked and one or more had that information. I don't have "The Gibson Bass Book," but someone can chime in on what it might cover. There is also a Wiki page. I think Miles began that.
https://www.talkbass.com/wiki/thunderbird-club-faqs-n-stuff/

 

[Bighouse]

The bridges can be very different. Can someone shed some light on these two different bridges and when they occur on which models?

 

[dagrev]

So, others may be more qualified to do a proper write up on the T-bird than me but I'll give you my take on it anyways.

In the early 1960's, Fender was a leader in the market and Gibson wanted something premium and modern to compete. Through a chance meeting, a Gibson executive wound up inviting retired automotive and custom coach designer Raymond Dietrich, known for his work with Lincoln, Chrysler, and Checker Taxi, to come and design a guitar. What they wound up with were the "Reverse Body" Firebird guitars and Thunderbird basses released in 1963. There was a Firebird I, III, and V, and a Thunderbird II and IV. Both instruments in their original form used a laminated through-neck construction similar to a Rickenbacker, with a pair of wings glued to the sides of the body, and a slightly raised center section. The Thunderbird II had a single humbucking pickup, volume, and tone pot, while the more premium IV model got two humbuckers, two volume pots, and a master tone. As far as I know all of the Gibson pickups used rails rather than individual poles.

Later on, after a lawsuit brought by Fender, Gibson changed the Thunderbird (and Firebird) models to what's known as the "Non-Reverse Body", which I would argue more closely resembles Fender's "offset" body styles like the Jaguar and Jazzmaster. These instruments offer similar specs to the earlier iteration, but using set-neck construction like a Les Paul or SG. The Non-Reverse birds also have a completely flat front to the body with no raised center section. These were produced from 1966 to 1969.

The Reverse Body Thunderbird IV came back in 1976 as the Bicentennial Thunderbird, and ran until 1979, and I'd say all modern T-birds are arguably reissues and re-imaginings of the Bird.

Famous Thunderbird players include names like Justin Chancellor (Tool), Les Claypool (Primus), Kim Gordon (Sonic Youth), Glenn Cornick (Jethro Tull), Krist Novoselic (Nirvana), Peter Hook (New Order), Kim Deal (Pixies), Adam Clayton (U2), Pete Way (UFO), John Entwistle (The Who), just to name a few.

Today, Thunderbirds can be found from a variety of US and foreign manufacturers, each with their own unique character. Not all use through-neck construction, some are even bolt-ons.

A fairly comprehensive list of manufacturers and models can be found here.

Departing from the history, I find them to be a fairly versatile bass. They tend to be favored by rock musicians, and play well with a pick and fingerstyle. You can get a fairly diverse range of tones out of them, though they're mostly renowned for a sort of punchy bottom-heavy tone with excellent sustain in many circles. The scale length tends to be 34", with 20 frets, four strings, though short scales and extended range examples have been produced.

The bridge is located a few inches in fron the bottom of the body, and the headstocks can be on the large side, so what results is a standard scale length bass that feels like it;s even longer. If you're used to a P-bass, a Thunderbird is probably going to feel like a much bigger instrument in the hands, which can either be a drawback, or it might be a reason to be drawn to the instrument. They tend to be comfortable to play sitting down as well as standing up. Rumors of neck-dive are slightly eggagerated and the issue that is there is easily rectified with proper strap button placement( which the factory may not actually have done for you sadly) and strap selection.

There's kinda a love it or hate it thing going on with the Thunderbird (and apparently the Firebird too), making it kind of a polarizing name in the bass world.

I like them enough to have three, though. If you're considering getting in to one however, as always I'd suggest going to a few stores and playing a few of them before jumping in headfirst.

Great answer. But to leave Leon out is a sin! I know it's tough to remember them all. But he was a long-term player (along wiht other basses), not just a phase with him.

And how could we forget....

 

[AllieCat]

Great answer. But to leave Leon out is a sin! I know it's tough to remember them all. But he was a long-term player (along wiht other basses), not just a phase with him.
View attachment 7166962


And how could forget....

Well I had to leave something out for others to be able to contribute, now didn't I?

 

[MCF]

So, others may be more qualified to do a proper write up on the T-bird than me but I'll give you my take on it anyways.

In the early 1960's, Fender was a leader in the market and Gibson wanted something premium and modern to compete. Through a chance meeting, a Gibson executive wound up inviting retired automotive and custom coach designer Raymond Dietrich, known for his work with Lincoln, Chrysler, and Checker Taxi, to come and design a guitar. What they wound up with were the "Reverse Body" Firebird guitars and Thunderbird basses released in 1963. There was a Firebird I, III, and V, and a Thunderbird II and IV. Both instruments in their original form used a laminated through-neck construction similar to a Rickenbacker, with a pair of wings glued to the sides of the body, and a slightly raised center section. The Thunderbird II had a single humbucking pickup, volume, and tone pot, while the more premium IV model got two humbuckers, two volume pots, and a master tone. As far as I know all of the Gibson pickups used rails rather than individual poles.

Later on, after a lawsuit brought by Fender, Gibson changed the Thunderbird (and Firebird) models to what's known as the "Non-Reverse Body", which I would argue more closely resembles Fender's "offset" body styles like the Jaguar and Jazzmaster. These instruments offer similar specs to the earlier iteration, but using set-neck construction like a Les Paul or SG. The Non-Reverse birds also have a completely flat front to the body with no raised center section. These were produced from 1966 to 1969.

The Reverse Body Thunderbird IV came back in 1976 as the Bicentennial Thunderbird, and ran until 1979, and I'd say all modern T-birds are arguably reissues and re-imaginings of the Bird.

Famous Thunderbird players include names like Justin Chancellor (Tool), Les Claypool (Primus), Kim Gordon (Sonic Youth), Glenn Cornick (Jethro Tull), Krist Novoselic (Nirvana), Peter Hook (New Order), Kim Deal (Pixies), Adam Clayton (U2), Pete Way (UFO), John Entwistle (The Who), just to name a few.

Today, Thunderbirds can be found from a variety of US and foreign manufacturers, each with their own unique character. Not all use through-neck construction, some are even bolt-ons.

A fairly comprehensive list of manufacturers and models can be found here.

Departing from the history, I find them to be a fairly versatile bass. They tend to be favored by rock musicians, and play well with a pick and fingerstyle. You can get a fairly diverse range of tones out of them, though they're mostly renowned for a sort of punchy bottom-heavy tone with excellent sustain in many circles. The scale length tends to be 34", with 20 frets, four strings, though short scales and extended range examples have been produced.

The bridge is located a few inches in fron the bottom of the body, and the headstocks can be on the large side, so what results is a standard scale length bass that feels like it;s even longer. If you're used to a P-bass, a Thunderbird is probably going to feel like a much bigger instrument in the hands, which can either be a drawback, or it might be a reason to be drawn to the instrument. They tend to be comfortable to play sitting down as well as standing up. Rumors of neck-dive are slightly eggagerated and the issue that is there is easily rectified with proper strap button placement( which the factory may not actually have done for you sadly) and strap selection.

There's kinda a love it or hate it thing going on with the Thunderbird (and apparently the Firebird too), making it kind of a polarizing name in the bass world.

I like them enough to have three, though. If you're considering getting in to one however, as always I'd suggest going to a few stores and playing a few of them before jumping in headfirst.

Nice basic rundown.

I wanted one from my early days of playing because Martin Turner of Wishbone Ash started playing one he got from another fav of mine, Overend Watts. And Killer played one too at times. Of course I couldn’t come close to affording one as a high school kid. I’m making up for that now.

Aside from the two shapes, there are different humbucking pickups in the various Gibsons. The Reverses and NRs from the sixties have two Alnico V bar magnets. The 70’s Bicentennials have a single Alnico V bar with “sidewinder” coils. The “modern” era Reverses from the 90’s on have ceramic magnet humbuckers (except for the ‘15 which has Alnico Vs and taps). The ‘21 NRs have vintage reissue Alnico Vs with specs similar to the 60s humbuckers.

 

[MCF]

Great answer. But to leave Leon out is a sin! I know it's tough to remember them all. But he was a long-term player (along wiht other basses), not just a phase with him.
View attachment 7166962


And how could forget....

And don’t forget Nikki!

 

[dagrev]

As there seems to be a community that really loves them, are there particular features/finishes/years that are particularly desirable? I’ll be honest and say that the body styles and headstock puzzle the heck out of me. I’m not enamored with their appearance, but I’m wondering if they’r an acquired taste kind of thing…it’s not a “love at first sight” kind of thing for me. The look mentally and physically awkward- but still I hear a small voice inside my head that says “hmmm…could be interesting”.

While many of us did see favorite band/bass player play one, the shape was only part of it. I've had my '64 since '81/82. It's the most comfortable bass I own. And...it's the best sounding. It feels like it was custom made for me and sounds like I could be happy only playing that bass every time. Some are attracted by the shape and could be a "look at me" thing for a some. They generally don't last. It's safe to say that everyone here would play and love one if it had a different shape, though that may have been part of the initial appeal. I like the look. May even prefer the non-reverse Thunderbird look. Certainly equally as well. (The old NRs are very comfortable like the old Reverse Thunderbirds.

There are obviously different iterations of Thunderbirds through the years. The modern Gibson's do feel very much like the old Thunderbirds from the 60s. They do not sound much at all like the Thunderbirds from the 60s. Very different animal. Not to say they can't sound good, but they cannot sound like a 60s Thunderbird. If someone wants to feel of a 60 Thunderbird, a modern Gibson would be a good option. If one wants the sound of a vintage 60 Thunderbird, an Epiphone Vintage Pro, 60s Bass, and now Thunderbird '64 as they call them are the best and also most affordable options by a long shot. The sound of the VPs and 60s Bass is far ans away closer to my '64 as anything Gibson has made since the 60s. (I can't compare Greckos and Lulls which also seem to be very close.) The VPs can be a little less big sounding--depending on the amp. I prefer my VPs with my all tube Ampeg heads. But can be beefed up with my Ashdown with little turn of the bass knob. Problem solved. But they have something of a magic sparkle (not just talking highs) that are found in the originals. Gibson has yet to make a bass that does that, including the modern NR with their reissue pickups. (Which I have and like, but doesn't sound like an old Thunderbird.) I've got to get back to work....

 

[AllieCat]

The bridges can be very different. Can someone shed some light on these two different bridges and when they occur on which models?
View attachment 7166959

I can't necessarily give you dates, others probably could.

What you're seeing is a 2 point and a 3 point bridge. The 2 point is a feature of the earliest examples, and has been brought back for certain reissues. It uses a separate tailpiece. The 3 point bridge is a later development and shows up on a number of Gibson basses and their derivatives. It integrates the bridge amd tailpiece into one part and uses three threaded inserts to attach to the body as opposed to the 2 piece using two threaded inserts and another pair for the separate tailpiece. Some people seem to have strong preferences about this.

I think on the original vintage iteration of the 2 point there were some issues insufficient range for intonation, enough to where aftermarket solutions were designed and marketed (by a member of this forum no less! Shoutout @godofthunder59 ).

The 3 point fixed that but has its detractors. All three of my birds have the 3 point. They intonate well for me, and provide acceptable action height and downforce on the saddles.

I'm told the modern 2 point that appears on the vintage style Epiphones fixes the intonation problem, so while they're different I don't think you'd be wrong to go either way.

 

[dagrev]

Well I had to leave something out for others to be able to contribute, now didn't I?

Thanks for leaving me some space for my paltry contribution to you more expansive post!

 

[dagrev]

And don’t forget Nikki!
View attachment 7167004

Indeed! Another consistent Thunderbird player, not one who had a Thunderbird phase at some point and moved on.

 

[Bighouse]

Funny…I thought the Reversed look was the right look for them, but now I’m kind of taking a liking to the Non-Reversed body. In particular the cherry transparent finished ones they have on Sweetwater right now for $2300 are really kinda nice. Maybe I’ll get one as a retirement gift to myself in a few years…

 

[MCF]

Indeed! Another consistent Thunderbird player, not one who had a Thunderbird phase at some point and moved on.

She uses a P in the vid for Well Thought Out Twinkles. That was a long time ago. Other than that, it’s all Thunderbirds except when she uses the Epi El Capitan for acoustic appearances. She does play a synth occasionally live for a couple songs.

 

[MCF]

Funny…I thought the Reversed look was the right look for them, but now I’m kind of taking a liking to the Non-Reversed body. In particular the cherry transparent finished ones they have on Sweetwater right now for $2300 are really kinda nice. Maybe I’ll get one as a retirement gift to myself in a few years…

It looks like you’re in Sonoma? We’re hoping to have a GTG, probably in Hollister, later this year. Once the particulars are decided, mark your calendar and come for the event. There will be multiple Thunderbirds for you to play.

 

[Engle]

Funny…I thought the Reversed look was the right look for them, but now I’m kind of taking a liking to the Non-Reversed body. In particular the cherry transparent finished ones they have on Sweetwater right now for $2300 are really kinda nice. Maybe I’ll get one as a retirement gift to myself in a few years…

I would definitely play one before buying.
I'm not sure if anyone mentioned it, but the 60s Gibsons had a 1.5 nut width. The modern Reverses are the same, but the NRs have a wider nut and beefier neck.