Thunderbird Club

[godofthunder59]

So, I’ve gotta ask everyone a question. You guys are all very cordial, but also honest and subjective. Since I started playing bass in 1998, I have always played solid state and hybrid style amps. I’ve been pretty happy with the tone that I’ve gotten over the years, but I’d always wanted a true SVT rig. About a year ago I picked up an SVT 810AV cab and an SVT-4PRO head. It’s sounded really good, and super loud. A lot warmer than the rig I had before. But, an opportunity cake up, and I traded the 4PRO for a nearly brand new SVT CL. I’m sure you’ve all seen my bragging post.

My question is, what amp does everyone play? And why? Do you prefer tube or SS or Hybrid? Why?

I literally brought the Classic home Friday night and gigged it Saturday night. I didn’t have much time to fool with it. All of the overtones and harmonics kinda screwed with me during the show. It sounded soooo much different than anything else I’ve ever played, including the 4PRO. SUPER DUPER loud. During the first set I tweaked a little bit, and just as soon as I got it singing, the front of house guy was like “Dude, I’m chasing your gain all over the place, and you’re freaking ROMPING!!” I tried to apologize, saying that I literally just got the amp. He said, “Well, if you keep going up and down, I’m just gonna take you out of the mix.”

Then came the kicker. He says, “You gotta get a new cab or amp or something. I had a guy here last weekend with a Hartke 4x10 that sounded sooo good, and would totally kill your amp.” At first, I didn’t understand. Like he literally said I was too loud, then he said a Hartke rig would kill my SVT. I shook hands and chummed up with the between set groupies(guys and girls, I’m not being egotistical. Y’all gigging musicians know what’s up), and when I went back on stage, I took the gain up from 1.5 to 2.5. I had the master volume maxed out per what I’ve read some users do to emulate old SVT’s. It was absolutely KILLING loud. Major air moving. I tried to come back down a bit, but the amp lost all that singing responsiveness. It’s like there was no in between. Either I turned up just a smidge and it was so alive, or down a you’ve and lost all its balls.

I’d really like to hear what the club has to say about this issue. I’ve had tube guitar amps for years, but never a full blown tube bass rig.

Flame on. View attachment 3099167

Hmmm saying the Hartke rig "sounded so good" I take to mean easy to control. There definitely is a volume threshold where tube amps sound good, it comes from driving the power tubes, not the pre amp. I have had a number of SVTs over the years while many love them I prefer Hiwatt, Sound City, Mashall etc. Funny you mention the harmonics messing with you, the lack of them with SS amps screws with me. It's all in what you get used to. How big was the venue? A SVT can be a bit much sometimes. Personally if I'm not in the mix I don't really care, I've been told more than once that they just mixed the band to the bass. Works for me.

 

[Unclejackrock]

Hmmm saying the Hartke rig "sounded so good" I take to mean easy to control. There definitely is a volume threshold where tube amps sound good, it comes from driving the power tubes, not the pre amp. I have had a number of SVTs over the years while many love them I prefer Hiwatt, Sound City, Mashall etc.

Well, I can certainly see your point. This amp has got to be a small club sound man’s nightmare. However, I tried to clarify his position by asking him, “What, the Hartke was louder? Better tone? What?”

And his response was, and I quote, “Yeah, all that. It was the loudest bass amp I’ve ever heard. That little 4x10 would kill that big amp of yours.”

My drummer, who is a pro sound engineer and all around musician caught him not looking and shook his head while mouthing B U L L S H IT

I understand personal preference and taste, but this cat was major hard to read.


My main question is, what amp do YOU play, and why?

I don’t wanna really open the can of tube vs SS. Even tho I hinted upon it, I want real answers without the devolution into GP stuff.

 

[Showdown]

Saturday night, Bicentennial bird. Perfection.

 

[godofthunder59]

Your SVT is fine , don't run out and buy a Hartke. The soundman is the last person I would take input from for your rig.

 

[Count Bassie]

So, I’ve gotta ask everyone a question. You guys are all very cordial, but also honest and subjective. Since I started playing bass in 1998, I have always played solid state and hybrid style amps. I’ve been pretty happy with the tone that I’ve gotten over the years, but I’d always wanted a true SVT rig. About a year ago I picked up an SVT 810AV cab and an SVT-4PRO head. It’s sounded really good, and super loud. A lot warmer than the rig I had before. But, an opportunity cake up, and I traded the 4PRO for a nearly brand new SVT CL. I’m sure you’ve all seen my bragging post.

My question is, what amp does everyone play? And why? Do you prefer tube or SS or Hybrid? Why?

I literally brought the Classic home Friday night and gigged it Saturday night. I didn’t have much time to fool with it. All of the overtones and harmonics kinda screwed with me during the show. It sounded soooo much different than anything else I’ve ever played, including the 4PRO. SUPER DUPER loud. During the first set I tweaked a little bit, and just as soon as I got it singing, the front of house guy was like “Dude, I’m chasing your gain all over the place, and you’re freaking ROMPING!!” I tried to apologize, saying that I literally just got the amp. He said, “Well, if you keep going up and down, I’m just gonna take you out of the mix.”

Then came the kicker. He says, “You gotta get a new cab or amp or something. I had a guy here last weekend with a Hartke 4x10 that sounded sooo good, and would totally kill your amp.” At first, I didn’t understand. Like he literally said I was too loud, then he said a Hartke rig would kill my SVT. I shook hands and chummed up with the between set groupies(guys and girls, I’m not being egotistical. Y’all gigging musicians know what’s up), and when I went back on stage, I took the gain up from 1.5 to 2.5. I had the master volume maxed out per what I’ve read some users do to emulate old SVT’s. It was absolutely KILLING loud. Major air moving. I tried to come back down a bit, but the amp lost all that singing responsiveness. It’s like there was no in between. Either I turned up just a smidge and it was so alive, or down a you’ve and lost all its balls.

I’d really like to hear what the club has to say about this issue. I’ve had tube guitar amps for years, but never a full blown tube bass rig.

Flame on. View attachment 3099167

Big conversation to have. (Edit: This is not a rundown of ss vs tubes, just my own story)

I had a Blue Line SVT years ago, didn't really know how to use it live. It was a gorgeous recording device though, with my '76 Rickie going into it.
Since '96 or so I've gone through a lot of amps, ss and hybrid. I've stayed with the solid state thing because it's a very manageable way to amplify. The bottom is tight, maintenance is easy, and honestly, a ss amp is less pricey than tubes!

Seriously I think there's less outstanding harmonic content than with tubes, and I like that. It's a simpler sound, if I could generalize. And... wait for it... ymmv!

I landed on Trace Elliot after years of waffling, esp the SMX series. There is a pretty brillant eq management system in that amp, and I like the gtaphi eq because you can see it. You have to learn what the curve you select means to your ears, but with some practice and a dozen or so gigs, you get it!
Lately I've rediscovered the old Acoustic series. Got my old 370 back, and that's the bar for solid state. That's become my sound... circuits have character, just like tubes do.
Some kind of alchemy, this whole business of electrons shooting around through wires and funny little bits of ceramic, making sounds that start with our hands and stir our soul...

 

[GonePlaid]

So, I’ve gotta ask everyone a question. You guys are all very cordial, but also honest and subjective. Since I started playing bass in 1998, I have always played solid state and hybrid style amps. I’ve been pretty happy with the tone that I’ve gotten over the years, but I’d always wanted a true SVT rig. About a year ago I picked up an SVT 810AV cab and an SVT-4PRO head. It’s sounded really good, and super loud. A lot warmer than the rig I had before. But, an opportunity cake up, and I traded the 4PRO for a nearly brand new SVT CL. I’m sure you’ve all seen my bragging post.

My question is, what amp does everyone play? And why? Do you prefer tube or SS or Hybrid? Why?

I literally brought the Classic home Friday night and gigged it Saturday night. I didn’t have much time to fool with it. All of the overtones and harmonics kinda screwed with me during the show. It sounded soooo much different than anything else I’ve ever played, including the 4PRO. SUPER DUPER loud. During the first set I tweaked a little bit, and just as soon as I got it singing, the front of house guy was like “Dude, I’m chasing your gain all over the place, and you’re freaking ROMPING!!” I tried to apologize, saying that I literally just got the amp. He said, “Well, if you keep going up and down, I’m just gonna take you out of the mix.”

Then came the kicker. He says, “You gotta get a new cab or amp or something. I had a guy here last weekend with a Hartke 4x10 that sounded sooo good, and would totally kill your amp.” At first, I didn’t understand. Like he literally said I was too loud, then he said a Hartke rig would kill my SVT. I shook hands and chummed up with the between set groupies(guys and girls, I’m not being egotistical. Y’all gigging musicians know what’s up), and when I went back on stage, I took the gain up from 1.5 to 2.5. I had the master volume maxed out per what I’ve read some users do to emulate old SVT’s. It was absolutely KILLING loud. Major air moving. I tried to come back down a bit, but the amp lost all that singing responsiveness. It’s like there was no in between. Either I turned up just a smidge and it was so alive, or down a you’ve and lost all its balls.

I’d really like to hear what the club has to say about this issue. I’ve had tube guitar amps for years, but never a full blown tube bass rig.

Flame on. View attachment 3099167

I had a late 70s SVT/810 rig. I never had the chance to really crank it. I guess it was too big for the room so I don't know what it could've sounded like. I(we)have almost never had a FOH guy to deal with-we're (I'm) our soundman-my PA. We rarely run through the PA. No need for the size places we play. Due to my age, I go light, meaning SS. IF someone made a compact(1-12 or 2-10)tube amp, reasonably priced for a weekend warrior type, I'd look but, I can carry my Rumble 200C with one hand and it's plenty for our gigs. I did invest in the mics and cables to mic the band-2 guitars, drums and me- into the PA a year ago. We've used the stuff twice. I won't deal with the weight and hassle of a big tube rig again. If I had roadies, maybe. One other point, and I know many will disagree, the audience can't tell the difference in sound between tube, hybrid, or SS, esp. if you're using effects/OD. If recording it might matter but most recording goes direct, so no BFD. Just my $.02.

 

[Unclejackrock]

Big conversation to have. (Edit: This is not a rundown of ss vs tubes, just my own story)

I had a Blue Line SVT years ago, didn't really know how to use it live. It was a gorgeous recording device though, with my '76 Rickie going into it.
Since '96 or so I've gone through a lot of amps, ss and hybrid. I've stayed with the solid state thing because it's a very manageable way to amplify. The bottom is tight, maintenance is easy, and honestly, a ss amp is less pricey than tubes!

Seriously I think there's less outstanding harmonic content than with tubes, and I like that. It's a simpler sound, if I could generalize. And... wait for it... ymmv!

I landed on Trace Elliot after years of waffling, esp the SMX series. There is a pretty brillant eq management system in that amp, and I like the gtaphi eq because you can see it. You have to learn what the curve you select means to your ears, but with some practice and a dozen or so gigs, you get it!
Lately I've rediscovered the old Acoustic series. Got my old 370 back, and that's the bar for solid state. That's become my sound... circuits have character, just like tubes do.
Some kind of alchemy, this whole business of electrons shooting around through wires and funny little bits of ceramic, making sounds that start with our hands and stir our soul...

I know EXACTLY what you mean about your personal EQ curve. I’ve replicated my tone on all the amps I’ve owned because I know what sliders to move where. It took me a long time to figure it out because I was wrapped up in the opinion that sharp changes across the spectrum were BAD. When I let that theory go, I found a few bands in a graphic that sounded like me, and immediately after plugging into an amp I’d make my slider pushes and it was my tone. The Classic doesn’t have those options. It’s full. It’s big. Dang does it ever grind. But I’m just trying to become friends with it.

 

[Unclejackrock]

I had a late 70s SVT/810 rig. I never had the chance to really crank it. I guess it was too big for the room so I don't know what it could've sounded like. I(we)have almost never had a FOH guy to deal with-we're (I'm) our soundman-my PA. We rarely run through the PA. No need for the size places we play. Due to my age, I go light, meaning SS. IF someone made a compact(1-12 or 2-10)tube amp, reasonably priced for a weekend warrior type, I'd look but, I can carry my Rumble 200C with one hand and it's plenty for our gigs. I did invest in the mics and cables to mic the band-2 guitars, drums and me- into the PA a year ago. We've used the stuff twice. I won't deal with the weight and hassle of a big tube rig again. If I had roadies, maybe. One other point, and I know many will disagree, the audience can't tell the difference in sound between tube, hybrid, or SS, esp. if you're using effects/OD. If recording it might matter but most recording goes direct, so no BFD. Just my $.02.

I had sound man duties for many years too. Bass tone was the least of my worries, I was just trying to get my AMAZING singer loud enough in the mix.

These days, we play a club that has a pretty good PA, and I don’t have many more years doing this thing. I don’t wanna leave anything unsaid or undone. I wanna crank some major bass tone, hence 3 Thunderbirds and an all tube SVT.

 

[theFixer]

Well, I can certainly see your point. This amp has got to be a small club sound man’s nightmare. However, I tried to clarify his position by asking him, “What, the Hartke was louder? Better tone? What?”

And his response was, and I quote, “Yeah, all that. It was the loudest bass amp I’ve ever heard. That little 4x10 would kill that big amp of yours.”

My drummer, who is a pro sound engineer and all around musician caught him not looking and shook his head while mouthing B U L L S H IT

I understand personal preference and taste, but this cat was major hard to read.


My main question is, what amp do YOU play, and why?

I don’t wanna really open the can of tube vs SS. Even tho I hinted upon it, I want real answers without the devolution into GP stuff.

I'm not qualified to respond to your tube/SS query, but I feel qualified to say this. I wouldn't take gear advice from an FOH guy. He wants you to be an ignorant pvssy. If the sound guy were to pick your band's gear, you'd be on stage with an electronic drumset & a buncha DI boxes! Like much of the GenPop here (and the world in general I suppose), this guy thinks highly enough of himself, that he believes his opinions are facts. To top it all off... he contradicted himself when he b!tched about how loud you were, and then told you that you should go get a louder amp. This guy is a fountain of bullsh!t. I'm sure he's out telling other musicians what gear they should be using, right now... as I'm typing this. You know how fountains are. They flow whether you're standing in front of them or not

 

[GonePlaid]

I know EXACTLY what you mean about your personal EQ curve. I’ve replicated my tone on all the amps I’ve owned because I know what sliders to move where. It took me a long time to figure it out because I was wrapped up in the opinion that sharp changes across the spectrum were BAD. When I let that theory go, I found a few bands in a graphic that sounded like me, and immediately after plugging into an amp I’d make my slider pushes and it was my tone. The Classic doesn’t have those options. It’s full. It’s big. Dang does it ever grind. But I’m just trying to become friends with it.

It seems you may have been better off with what was familiar. I wanted my SVT rig 'cause they were "The Thing" at the time. In retrospect, it was a Big, HEAVY, boo-boo-which, thankfully, I didn't have to move a lot(steady gig). Perhaps if you bought it a drink?

 

[GonePlaid]

I'm not qualified to respond to your tube/SS query, but I feel qualified to say this. I wouldn't take gear advice from an FOH guy. He wants you to be an ignorant pvssy. If the sound guy were to pick your band's gear, you'd be on stage with an electronic drumset & a buncha DI boxes! Like much of the GenPop here (and the world in general I suppose), this guy thinks highly enough of himself, that he believes his opinions are facts. To top it all off... he contradicted himself when he b!tched about how loud you were, and then told you that you should go get a louder amp. This guy is a fountain of bullsh!t. I'm sure he's out telling other musicians what gear they should be using, right now... as I'm typing this. You know how fountains are. They flow whether you're standing in front of them or not

Instead of FOH guy he seems to be a FOS guy.

 

[Unclejackrock]

I'm not qualified to respond to your tube/SS query, but I feel qualified to say this. I wouldn't take gear advice from an FOH guy. He wants you to be an ignorant pvssy. If the sound guy were to pick your band's gear, you'd be on stage with an electronic drumset & a buncha DI boxes! Like much of the GenPop here (and the world in general I suppose), this guy thinks highly enough of himself, that he believes his opinions are facts. To top it all off... he contradicted himself when he b!tched about how loud you were, and then told you that you should go get a louder amp. This guy is a fountain of bullsh!t. I'm sure he's out telling other musicians what gear they should be using, right now... as I'm typing this. You know how fountains are. They flow whether you're standing in front of them or not

I agree totally. When I opened the case on Day Glo, he just about mudded his pants. It was funny, he just stood there looking at it as I went about my business. Then I broke out the Blackbird, and he asked if I had anymore basses for the gig. I didn’t respond. Then he dogged my rig after the first set.

I didn’t and don’t take his word as prophet. I just had to share my experience, and ask yours.


And, he tried to plug me into a DI. I said, there’s a DI on the back, thank you.

 

[Unclejackrock]

It seems you may have been better off with what was familiar. I wanted my SVT rig 'cause they were "The Thing" at the time. In retrospect, it was a Big, HEAVY, boo-boo-which, thankfully, I didn't have to move a lot(steady gig). Perhaps if you bought it a drink?

I guess I just wasn’t prepared for the major difference between tube and SS.

 

[GonePlaid]

I agree totally. When I opened the case on Day Glo, he just about mudded his pants. It was funny, he just stood there looking at it as I went about my business. Then I broke out the Blackbird, and he asked if I had anymore basses for the gig. I didn’t respond. Then he dogged my rig after the first set.

I didn’t and don’t take his word as prophet. I just had to share my experience, and ask yours.


And, he tried to plug me into a DI. I said, there’s a DI on the back, thank you.

Sounds like he knows one way to do things. After that he's confozzled. Probly has a bunch of settings on his board and anything else is"wrong".

 

[Count Bassie]

I'm not qualified to respond to your tube/SS query, but I feel qualified to say this. I wouldn't take gear advice from an FOH guy. He wants you to be an ignorant pvssy. If the sound guy were to pick your band's gear, you'd be on stage with an electronic drumset & a buncha DI boxes! Like much of the GenPop here (and the world in general I suppose), this guy thinks highly enough of himself, that he believes his opinions are facts. To top it all off... he contradicted himself when he b!tched about how loud you were, and then told you that you should go get a louder amp. This guy is a fountain of bullsh!t. I'm sure he's out telling other musicians what gear they should be using, right now... as I'm typing this. You know how fountains are. They flow whether you're standing in front of them or not

Brilliantly put down.

 

[Count Bassie]

Amps and what they do, and what impresses us about them is all such subjective stuff. Go with what makes you feel at home.

 

[Unclejackrock]

Sounds like he knows one way to do things. After that he's confozzled. Probly has a bunch of settings on his board and anything else is"wrong".

We used to think we’d take over the world. Somebody in the band was bound to tell a house sound guy just what he could stick where. We took everything way too seriously and there were times when we as a band were pretty hard to deal with because of ego. We were pretty good, but in retrospect, certainly not THAT good.

These days, we just wanna have a lot of fun. Zero fudges given on most nights besides making the crowd happy, taking much too long on break, and getting far too high on crowd purchased drinks to play well enough to be taken seriously. But, our crowd are friends at this point, and we have no aspirations of becoming the Next Big Thing.


That doesn’t stop my from becoming frustrated from time to time tho.

 

[GonePlaid]

We used to think we’d take over the world. Somebody in the band was bound to tell a house sound guy just what he could stick where. We took everything way too seriously and there were times when we as a band were pretty hard to deal with because of ego. We were pretty good, but in retrospect, certainly not THAT good.

These days, we just wanna have a lot of fun. Zero fudges given on most nights besides making the crowd happy, taking much too long on break, and getting far too high on crowd purchased drinks to play well enough to be taken seriously. But, our crowd are friends at this point, and we have no aspirations of becoming the Next Big Thing.


That doesn’t stop my from becoming frustrated from time to time tho.

You can still love the music but strongly dislike the business-and the dimbulbs who are "in charge"

 

[theFixer]

I had a late 70s SVT/810 rig. I never had the chance to really crank it. I guess it was too big for the room so I don't know what it could've sounded like. I(we)have almost never had a FOH guy to deal with-we're (I'm) our soundman-my PA. We rarely run through the PA. No need for the size places we play. Due to my age, I go light, meaning SS. IF someone made a compact(1-12 or 2-10)tube amp, reasonably priced for a weekend warrior type, I'd look but, I can carry my Rumble 200C with one hand and it's plenty for our gigs. I did invest in the mics and cables to mic the band-2 guitars, drums and me- into the PA a year ago. We've used the stuff twice. I won't deal with the weight and hassle of a big tube rig again. If I had roadies, maybe. One other point, and I know many will disagree, the audience can't tell the difference in sound between tube, hybrid, or SS, esp. if you're using effects/OD. If recording it might matter but most recording goes direct, so no BFD. Just my $.02.

It doesn't matter if an audience can differentiate between tube and solid state. In fact... it has nothing to do with the audience at all. It has everything to do with each of us as players. When the luxury is available... it's nice to be able to shop with our ears alone. Over here in the real world, we have to listen with our wallets as well. Either way... when shopping for an amp... ya typically like to find one that sounds pleasing to your ears... right? Well... if there were a variety of tube AND solid state amps available in my price range... I'd try both, but knowing myself as I do... I'm confident I'd be coming home with a box of tubes. Not because tubes are "better"... but because I generally prefer the tone and character of a tube amp. I don't give a damn if people know it's a tube amp... I just want it to sound like one! Odds are pretty good that, if it sounds good to you, it'll sound good to them. All that being said... there are a lot of really great solid state amps out there! Do they sound like tube amps? No. Does that mean they're not good amps? No. It only means they don't sound like tube amps. Hell... IMO... there's no better time to not be able to afford a good tube amp, than right now

 

[Count Bassie]

I know EXACTLY what you mean about your personal EQ curve. I’ve replicated my tone on all the amps I’ve owned...

Isn't it funny how that happens - you're always looking to sound like what you think you are... Ampeg, schmampeg. As long as he loves his tone...