Thunderbird Club

[GBassNorth]

The one that works?

That's the problem, it doesn't.

I found the same thing when looking for wiring diagrams. Doesn't help that both of the other v/v/t Thunderbirds I have are wired different

With the first iteration of wiring for the GBP, I wired the cap to the outer/right lug; I don't know if that was causing my issues or not, but I'm wiring it to the center this time around, see what happens


Edit: went back & reviewed some of the pics I took, and even though the wiring is different in some ways, both of the bolt-on 'birds have the cap wired to the center lug

Just completed anal inspections of all my TBirds and a couple of my Fenders. One bird has the tone cap on the outer right lug and all the Fenders do as well. But the majority of my birds are in fact center lug tone cap oriented. Not sure if it makes any difference, although logic would imply it does. Why some are one way and others aren't is still a mystery to me (parallel vs series perhaps, or maybe just a phase difference on the output jack???).

Since I already have the common ground soldiered in the center lug I'll play with cap values on the right lug. The Goth comes standard with a .068uf tone cap. IIRC a .1uf cap should be less bright on the top end, a .047uf should be more bright and a .022uf cap should be even brighter.

I did notice a problem with my wiring. I inadvertently soldiered the output jack backwards. I'll have to correct that tomorrow when there's better light in the bass room.

Later gator.

 

[KaraQ]

That's the problem, it doesn't.



Just completed anal inspections of all my TBirds and a couple of my Fenders. One bird has the tone cap on the outer right lug and all the Fenders do as well. But the majority of my birds are in fact center lug tone cap oriented. Not sure if it makes any difference, although logic would imply it does. Why some are one way and others aren't is still a mystery to me (parallel vs series perhaps, or maybe just a phase difference on the output jack???).

Since I already have the common ground soldiered in the center lug I'll play with cap values on the right lug. The Goth comes standard with a .068uf tone cap. IIRC a .1uf cap should be less bright on the top end, a .047uf should be more bright and a .022uf cap should be even brighter.

I did notice a problem with my wiring. I inadvertently soldiered the output jack backwards. I'll have to correct that tomorrow when there's better light in the bass room.

Later gator.

Good info!
I didn't know that about the caps! Thanks!

I'm starting to wonder if it has something to do with pickup design.
Is there a difference in pickups with the one of yours that has the different cap connection?

 

[dagrev]

No. I still love the EBCF's on my 'Bird and LPB2/5. I'd put them on the EB-0 but they're ~36" to the taper so I'd really be into the 'meat' of the string to put 'em on the shorty.
I went ahead and ordered the GHS SS Brite Flats. We'll see........

Interested to get your take on the Brite Flats.

 

[GonePlaid]

Interested to get your take on the Brite Flats.

I'll report-when I get them. They're coming from TX, so with the storms, past and present, it might be awhile.

 

[GonePlaid]

That's the problem, it doesn't.



Just completed anal inspections of all my TBirds and a couple of my Fenders. One bird has the tone cap on the outer right lug and all the Fenders do as well. But the majority of my birds are in fact center lug tone cap oriented. Not sure if it makes any difference, although logic would imply it does. Why some are one way and others aren't is still a mystery to me (parallel vs series perhaps, or maybe just a phase difference on the output jack???).

Since I already have the common ground soldiered in the center lug I'll play with cap values on the right lug. The Goth comes standard with a .068uf tone cap. IIRC a .1uf cap should be less bright on the top end, a .047uf should be more bright and a .022uf cap should be even brighter.

I did notice a problem with my wiring. I inadvertently soldiered the output jack backwards. I'll have to correct that tomorrow when there's better light in the bass room.

Later gator.

Back when I was driving other people's trucks(after selling mine), the first thing I'd do when getting into a different truck was familiarize myself with the layout of switches, instruments, shift pattern, etc. Each manufacturer[goes for cars too]arranges stuff differently. Apparently that goes for bass builders also.

 

[KaraQ]

The Goth comes standard with a .068uf tone cap. IIRC a .1uf cap should be less bright on the top end, a .047uf should be more bright and a .022uf cap should be even brighter.

Ran the numbers on the cap for the '07 Unsung 'bird, turns out it's a .068uf also:

"2A683J BYAB capacitor 0.068uF 100V Film Polyester Radial 2020008118."

 

[MCF]

That's the problem, it doesn't.



Just completed anal inspections of all my TBirds and a couple of my Fenders. One bird has the tone cap on the outer right lug and all the Fenders do as well. But the majority of my birds are in fact center lug tone cap oriented. Not sure if it makes any difference, although logic would imply it does. Why some are one way and others aren't is still a mystery to me (parallel vs series perhaps, or maybe just a phase difference on the output jack???).

Since I already have the common ground soldiered in the center lug I'll play with cap values on the right lug. The Goth comes standard with a .068uf tone cap. IIRC a .1uf cap should be less bright on the top end, a .047uf should be more bright and a .022uf cap should be even brighter.

I did notice a problem with my wiring. I inadvertently soldiered the output jack backwards. I'll have to correct that tomorrow when there's better light in the bass room.

Later gator.

If I can later, I’ll open the back doors on the three bolt-ons and report back.

I was thinking about that set of Gibby PUPs if they’re still available for the Goth, but maybe you might want them? Put those in and wire it Sixx style. That would be an absolute beast for very little coin.

 

[GBassNorth]

Ran the numbers on the cap for the '07 Unsung 'bird, turns out it's a .068uf also:

"2A683J BYAB capacitor 0.068uF 100V Film Polyester Radial 2020008118."
View attachment 3990165

Yep, that be the one. And its on center post as well. I'll post back with my Center lug vs right lug findings as well as the tone cap value test. I might jump over to the Luthier forum and ask the question about Center vs right lug cap mounting, I gotta believe it makes a difference on the bleed of the cap as the pot sweep is turned.

 

[GBassNorth]

If I can later, I’ll open the back doors on the three bolt-ons and report back.

I was thinking about that set of Gibby PUPs if they’re still available for the Goth, but maybe you might want them? Put those in and wire it Sixx style. That would be an absolute beast for very little coin.

Thanks M.

Right now (well at least before I desoldered and installed all new grounds) I really my stock Goth pups in this bass. I just need to work thru the wiring options and hope that cures the grounding hum I was getting before I removed the rats nest.

If you get a chance to post a close up pic of one of your bolt on control cavities I might be able to confirm I've got it all back together correctly.

 

[Gaolee]

saying... Gibson is madness ?

Or something. They ARE getting the same result somehow.

 

[Gaolee]

The one that works?

Backwards perhaps.

[Edit] or not.

I will take a look at my bolt on this afternoon if I remember.

 

[KaraQ]

Thanks M.

Right now (well at least before I desoldered and installed all new grounds) I really my stock Goth pups in this bass. I just need to work thru the wiring options and hope that cures the grounding hum I was getting before I removed the rats nest.

If you get a chance to post a close up pic of one of your bolt on control cavities I might be able to confirm I've got it all back together correctly.

Will this work?

 

[GBassNorth]

Ran the numbers on the cap for the '07 Unsung 'bird, turns out it's a .068uf also:

"2A683J BYAB capacitor 0.068uF 100V Film Polyester Radial 2020008118."
View attachment 3990165

If I can later, I’ll open the back doors on the three bolt-ons and report back.

I was thinking about that set of Gibby PUPs if they’re still available for the Goth, but maybe you might want them? Put those in and wire it Sixx style. That would be an absolute beast for very little coin.

Backwards perhaps.

[Edit] or not.

I will take a look at my bolt on this afternoon if I remember.

Will this work?

View attachment 3990229

View attachment 3990233

Ok, Finally found the answer I was looking for while searching for words of wisdom in the pickups and electronics forum. Apparently there is zero difference in sound or function of the bass if the tone cap is mounted on the right lug vs the center lug. It's simply a preference thing probably driven more by ease of installation than anything else. So it looks like I can move forward with my right lug mounting.

Of course anal me just has to be certain, so now I'll need to find out if it makes a difference which tone pot lug the hot wires go to.

 

[GBassNorth]

Ok, Finally found the answer I was looking for while searching for words of wisdom in the pickups and electronics forum. Apparently there is zero difference in sound or function of the bass if the tone cap is mounted on the right lug vs the center lug. It's simply a preference thing probably driven more by ease of installation than anything else. So it looks like I can move forward with my right lug mounting.

Of course anal me just has to be certain, so now I'll need to find out if it makes a difference which tone pot lug the hot wires go to.

Ok, just confirmed Center vs right tone pot lug for hot wires makes no difference either. Perfect! Now I just need to resolider the output jack and I can start my Cap value testing. I'm looking for a deep dark sound from this bass with a strong low mid hump if possible, no need for sparkling top end on this one.

Stock Cap = .068uf

Caps being tested:
.1uf Orange drop
.0475 Orange drop
.0475 Emerson paper and oil
.022 Orange drop

Will report back on findings.

 

[TBird1958]

Interesting in a Ripper/Grabber kind of way, I was not aware of this, the headstock could be better - more sympathetic to the design.


[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[Engle]

My EB2 has no checking. Actually none of my instruments do with the exception of the piano. That was UV damage from being by a sunny window. Maybe checking is more about sun damage than age.

My Attila/National has lots of checking, but that because I sprayed too much nitro on it too quickly. Good thing I like the look!

 

[GBassNorth]

Ok, just confirmed Center vs right tone pot lug for hot wires makes no difference either. Perfect! Now I just need to resolider the output jack and I can start my Cap value testing. I'm looking for a deep dark sound from this bass with a strong low mid hump if possible, no need for sparkling top end on this one.

Stock Cap = .068uf

Caps being tested:
.1uf Orange drop
.0475 Orange drop
.0475 Emerson paper and oil
.022 Orange drop

Will report back on findings.

Cap testing complete.
To my ears the stock .068uf cap sounded very good but if you rolled the tone knob to zero you had to increase the volume pot to 4 or greater to get any useable volume, then at 9 plus on the volume you start to get more mids and highs rolling in.

The .1uf Orange drop sounded pretty good, but again impacted the volume knob more than I'd like. Not too many highs, maybe more mids though.

The .047uf Orange drop and Emerson paper and oil sounded pretty much identical. Tone was going further away from my goal so I didn't spend much time there.

The .022uf Orange drop wasn't drastically different from the .047, but again it was going in the opposite direction from what wanted.

For the fun of it I installed a 153K orange drop and it sounded interesting. Lots of useable space on the volume knob with the tone set on zero. Plenty of mids and low mids and very loud, tons of grind, manageable top end, but loud. Decided to leave this cap in and play the bass for a few days to see how it fits in various settings. Even though it wasn't the sound I was after.

I suspect a cap with a value between .068uf and .1uf will give me exactly what I'm looking for. Unfortunately I don't have any of those so I'll have to purchase some and give it a try.

Good news is the grounding hum is gone now along with the majority of the rats nest. Still more solider on the pots than I'd like but it's not hurting anything and trying to remove it probably runs a risk in overheating and damaging a pot. It ain't broke so I'm not fixing it.

 

[GBassNorth]

Will this work?

View attachment 3990229

View attachment 3990233

Yes that helped, thanks.

 

[Engle]

Well at least it is accurately described. It certainly has been played. It’s probably a real good one. And a nice rugged case. But yeah, that would bug me a lot too. Maybe try to dicker and see if it could be repaired?

Hmmm, I could probably do that repair. Might be a good excuse to get an airbrush! The good thing about Nitro is you can spray repairs and get them to blend into the existing finish much more easily than other finishes. I think he wanted $1900 a few weeks ago so we’ll see. I might be getting some “play money” soon, so if it’s still there, I’ll probably look at it.

 

[Engle]

Cap testing complete.
To my ears the stock .068uf cap sounded very good but if you rolled the tone knob to zero you had to increase the volume pot to 4 or greater to get any useable volume, then at 9 plus on the volume you start to get more mids and highs rolling in.

The .1uf Orange drop sounded pretty good, but again impacted the volume knob more than I'd like. Not too many highs, maybe more mids though.

The .047uf Orange drop and Emerson paper and oil sounded pretty much identical. Tone was going further away from my goal so I didn't spend much time there.

The .022uf Orange drop wasn't drastically different from the .047, but again it was going in the opposite direction from what wanted.

For the fun of it I installed a 153K orange drop and it sounded interesting. Lots of useable space on the volume knob with the tone set on zero. Plenty of mids and low mids and very loud, tons of grind, manageable top end, but loud. Decided to leave this cap in and play the bass for a few days to see how it fits in various settings. Even though it wasn't the sound I was after.

I suspect a cap with a value between .068uf and .1uf will give me exactly what I'm looking for. Unfortunately I don't have any of those so I'll have to purchase some and give it a try.

Good news is the grounding hum is gone now along with the majority of the rats nest. Still more solider on the pots than I'd like but it's not hurting anything and trying to remove it probably runs a risk in overheating and damaging a pot. It ain't broke so I'm not fixing it.

You can put capacitors in series or parallel to get desired values. The formulas are opposite to resistance/impedance. So in parallel they add up, in series add the reciprocal values.