Time Brings About a Change: I Love Ron Carter!

[Dr. Cheese]

Yesterday morning, I was playing at a funeral. One thing that was really different was instead of a gospel song, the widow had the family march into the church to Roberta Flack's "The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face." Hearing that song over the church sound system, Ron Carter's bass line really came through more prominently than I ever heard it before. It sounded so beautiful, I just starting beaming with joy. I know I probably looked odd, but I could not help myself.

When I was young, I hated Ron Carter, because I felt he talked trash about the bass guitar. Over time his tone changed, I could tell he respected folks who were good at playing bass guitar. The other thing that changed was developing some empathy on my part. I knew what it was like to see my favorite instrument lose popularity to bass synth. I played some bass synth back in the day, but I never loved it like bass guitar. Finally, after listening to Red Clay and a few other tunes, it was obvious that Ron Carter could have been an incredible bass guitarist if he had wanted to make the change.

I follow Ron Carter on Facebook and he is the epitome of living well and aging gracefully. He is still a great player and I listen to him every chance I get.

 

[djmay]

If I remember correctly, he stopped playing bass guitar because it hindered his double bass development.

 

[Dr. Cheese]

If I remember correctly, he stopped playing bass guitar because it hindered his double bass development.

He might have said it that way. My understanding is that he was and is a double bass virtuoso and he did want to spend time mastering another instrument when he was already world class on his first love.

 

[JRA]

I follow Ron Carter on Facebook and he is the epitome of living well and aging gracefully. He is still a great player and I listen to him every chance I get.

same, and i agree.

i didn't play DB two seconds before i switched to EB, but ron has always been an influence....i wouldn't care if he talked trash...

 

[bass player 53]

On his second solo album, Ron is playing electric and acoustic bass.

 

[Dr. Cheese]

Wynton Marsalis is a year younger than me and he has always been an outspoken critic of Fusion. Even in recent years, he would not recognize Weather Report's Heavy Weather as album worthy to be regarded as classic. In the early Eighties, it seemed like all sorts of people were coming for electric instruments, so it was in this context that I felt hostile to Ron Carter.

As a much older man, I have come to the conclusion that there no is point in letting other people's opinions on creative things, like music, bother me. Folks like what they like. Even more important, I should never blind myself to someone's else's art, whether the person rubs the wrong way or not. The antidote to narrow mindedness is not more narrow mindedness. It is open mindedness.

 

[woodyng2]

Those statements of Marsalis' rubbed me the wrong way, too. I've loved Weather Report's music throughout their career with a variety of incredible (and very different) bassists, pre and post Jaco. They were the epitome of a fusion sound I liked much more than most groups of that ilk.
And I couldn't name or find memorable anything by WM. (That I'd heard, but I'm more of a Dexter Gordon/Clark Terry type).
I'm sure he's amazing, but whatever I've heard him play just doesn't stick around in my head, which is more telling of me, I suppose.
Didn't he play with Sting on some of his generic jazzpop albums? Or was that another Marsalis?
Okay, espresso rant over now…..

 

[Dr. Cheese]

Those statements of Marsalis' rubbed me the wrong way, too. I've loved Weather Report's music throughout their career with a variety of incredible (and very different) bassists, pre and post Jaco. They were the epitome of a fusion sound I liked much more than most groups of that ilk.
And I couldn't name or find memorable anything by WM. (That I'd heard, but I'm more of a Dexter Gordon/Clark Terry type).
I'm sure he's amazing, but whatever I've heard him play just doesn't stick around in my head, which is more telling of me, I suppose.
Didn't he play with Sting on some of his generic jazzpop albums? Or was that another Marsalis?
Okay, espresso rant over now…..

Branford played with Sting. Wynton has been consistent.

 

[Bass4ThePublic]

Yeah, Carter on a Jazz Bass would've been amazing. Going electric worked out pretty okay for Jamerson

 

[jerry]

Wynton Marsalis is a year younger than me and he has always been an outspoken critic of Fusion. Even in recent years, he would not recognize Weather Report's Heavy Weather as album worthy to be regarded as classic. In the early Eighties, it seemed like all sorts of people were coming for electric instruments, so it was in this context that I felt hostile to Ron Carter.

As a much older man, I have come to the conclusion that there no is point in letting other people's opinions on creative things, like music, bother me. Folks like what they like. Even more important, I should never blind myself to someone's else's art, whether the person rubs the wrong way or not. The antidote to narrow mindedness is not more narrow mindedness. It is open mindedness.

Ken Burns documentary on the history of jazz that was overseen by Wynton showed his dismissal of fusion, they made like it never existed. I was bugged by that too, but I got over it.

 

[Dr. Cheese]

Yeah, Carter on a Jazz Bass would've been amazing. Going electric worked out pretty okay for Jamerson

In all fairness, Carter wasn't playing Motown.

 

[superiorpine]

Ron Carter has been an inspiration for me since CTI recordings were recommended to me in the early 70s. I was then playing electric bass in a resort gig. It was recommended by the guitarist in a traveling jazz/bop band who played the same resort. I went out and bought Blues Farm (on vinyl, since CD wasn't invented yet) and have been a fan since.

I did read some of his disparaging remarks about electric bass, and I viewed his opinion at the time as uninformed. I still listen to Blues Farm, and only recently re-read the liner notes to find he played piccolo bass on that as well, which he characterized as tuned like an upside down cello. My memory is that as a child he actually started out on cello, and switched for better opportunities. Many of us are glad he did.

 

[J Wilson]

I made my peace with upright many years ago; a friend had a gorgeous, natural finish German symphony-grade upright, and he'd have me mess around on it, and I could never get used to standing behind it, it just always felt somehow disconnected. But even with my less-than-a-beginner pecking around on it (I actually found my way better than I thought I would), I could see very quickly that while my BB1200 and this giant shared the same tuning, they were indeed, two VERY different instruments. If I'd have gone forward with it, I'd have needed lessons and learned to bow it, my favorite upright sound.

I also was taught by very good, senior players that good musicians listen to EVERYTHING, not just their own bag, for other inspiration and some things you probably had not seen that way or considered. And that even in music you really just might have NO use for, a great player is a great player, even on stuff you can't stand and you must respect that.

That advice has stood me in very good stead and has never been wrong.

Ron Carter (to my mind, a national treasure for so many reasons) lives and plays in a world I am totally ignorant of, yet I am never unaware of his towering presence, and one of the men who wrote The Book when it comes to playing bass, either on a strap, or standing behind it.

And hopefully, I too, have out-lived most of the 'I Know Everything !' hubris of my youth, and learned patience and empathy.

I'm still buzzing from that clip you posted of Dr. Carter and that choir, Dr. C !

 

[jthisdell]

A few years ago we were walking on the High Line in New York and there was a vendor selling shirts with old jazz all stars. I picked the one with Ron Carter and the vendor said "he's the only one still living "

 

[BassBrass]

Those statements of Marsalis' rubbed me the wrong way, too. I've loved Weather Report's music throughout their career with a variety of incredible (and very different) bassists, pre and post Jaco. They were the epitome of a fusion sound I liked much more than most groups of that ilk.
And I couldn't name or find memorable anything by WM. (That I'd heard, but I'm more of a Dexter Gordon/Clark Terry type).
I'm sure he's amazing, but whatever I've heard him play just doesn't stick around in my head, which is more telling of me, I suppose.
Didn't he play with Sting on some of his generic jazzpop albums? Or was that another Marsalis?
Okay, espresso rant over now…..

You are thinking of Chris Botti, another trumpet phenom. Wynton and Chris and Clarke (called the best natural embouchure ever) are all untouchable (as is Ron) regardless of what they said or someone says they said. Do you know who played the theme to Chinatown? (I'm a trumpet player so I know these things)

 

[Joebone]

You are thinking of Chris Botti, another trumpet phenom. Wynton and Chris and Clarke (called the best natural embouchure ever) are all untouchable (as is Ron) regardless of what they said or someone says they said. Do you know who played the theme to Chinatown? (I'm a trumpet player so I know these things)

Uan Rasey! Had the good fortune to check out Wayne Bergeron's big band in LA, when Bergeron noted that Uan was in the audience (and took a well-earned bow) for his body of work.

 

[JazznFunk]

Wynton Marsalis is a year younger than me and he has always been an outspoken critic of Fusion. Even in recent years, he would not recognize Weather Report's Heavy Weather as album worthy to be regarded as classic. In the early Eighties, it seemed like all sorts of people were coming for electric instruments, so it was in this context that I felt hostile to Ron Carter.

IMHO, Wynton and his conservative revisionist history pursuit did more to hamstring innovation in Jazz than it helped, and pit those who wanted to push the music forward against those who wanted to treat it like a museum piece before it was even 100 years old. I've never liked him, no matter how great of a player he may be. His fingerprints were all over the Ken Burns Jazz documentary, and it shows.

As for Ron, I deeply admire every aspect of his playing except for his tone. It's ironic that his amplified tone sounded more like an electric bass for years than even some electric basses did. One of the best sounding records, with one of Ron's best recorded tones, is 'Nefertiti'. Full, woody, thick... and his playing is immensely interactive and lyrical.

 

[Joebone]

Yesterday morning, I was playing at a funeral. One thing that was really different was instead of a gospel song, the widow had the family march into the church to Roberta Flack's "The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face." Hearing that song over the church sound system, Ron Carter's bass line really came through more prominently than I ever heard it before. It sounded so beautiful, I just starting beaming with joy. I know I probably looked odd, but I could not help myself.

When I was young, I hated Ron Carter, because I felt he talked trash about the bass guitar. Over time his tone changed, I could tell he respected folks who were good at playing bass guitar. The other thing that changed was developing some empathy on my part. I knew what it was like to see my favorite instrument lose popularity to bass synth. I played some bass synth back in the day, but I never loved it like bass guitar. Finally, after listening to Red Clay and a few other tunes, it was obvious that Ron Carter could have been an incredible bass guitarist if he had wanted to make the change.

I follow Ron Carter on Facebook and he is the epitome of living well and aging gracefully. He is still a great player and I listen to him every chance I get.

So I get why Mr. Carter is perceived as crochety, and have heard from students that he is very strict. OTOH, his musical flexibility is INSANE! As I started hearing and playing jazz in my late teens (on trombone), I was intrigued to see his name on all kinds of stuff - the Miles Second Quintet, the CTI stuff, and on Airto and Flora's first US recordings (rare, on Buddah Records!), always bringing a deep A-Game. On electric? One of my favorite albums of all time is Miles's Filles de Kilimanjaro, particularly the title tune, with electric bass. Mr. Carter (yeah, I call him Mr. Carter out of deference to his seniority, his record, and his always dressing in an early-'60's Brooks Brothers/J. Press fashion - gravitas commands respect!) uses the electric as the right tool for dialog with his bandmates. For me, this tune is the absolute apogee of gifted musicians, with a long mutual history, breathing and feeling together as masters of time, timbre, harmony, and nuance, reactively creating like a unitary, sensitive membrane. And the Fender bass (presume a P-bass with flats) is wonderfully deployed in pushing things along. Check it out!!!

 

[BassBrass]

Uan Rasey! Had the good fortune to check out Wayne Bergeron's big band in LA, when Bergeron noted that Uan was in the audience (and took a well-earned bow) for his body of work.

amazing! TB membership has some deep resources! Talk about a phenom--Wayne Bergeron is #1 case when he emerged in LA studio orchestras (the only thing I like better about the newer West Side Story sound track, Mambo! (trumpet solo starts at 2:08) also the Yamaha Wayne Bergeron Trumpet is state of the art even more than a Marcus Miller bass

 

[Joebone]

amazing! TB membership has some deep resources! Talk about a phenom--Wayne Bergeron is #1 case when he emerged in LA studio orchestras (the only thing I like better about the newer West Side Story sound track, Mambo! (trumpet solo starts at 2:08) also the Yamaha Wayne Bergeron Trumpet is state of the art even more than a Marcus Miller bass

Wayne Bergeron has been #1 trumpet in LA studios for many years, coming from early gigs with Maynard Ferguson and the like. Once went down to a small club to check out a piano trio with Alphonso Johnson on bass and Ndugu Chancler in drums, and ended up at the bar with Wayne - very chill, down-to-earth, deeply appreciative of his peer group. A class act, and yes, I've heard that those Yamaha trumpets are superb.