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Time Brings About a Change: I Love Ron Carter!

#21
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#22
Back in the 70s it looked to a lot of jazz musicians like the electric bass was going to take over the role of the double bass in Jazz. So a lot of double bass players started playing electric. Ron Carter was one, Dave Holland, even Rufus Reed. When it became apparent that the double bass would remain relevant, and that electric would require a huge committment, most of them abandoned the electric.

Dave Holland has been back on his P Bass some in sort of recently. He kills on it!
 
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#23
I saw Ron play live a couple times back in the late 70's or early 80's. I don't remember much about those concerts, or who he played with, but I do remember his solid playing. Over last couple years I've watched the few online free lessons he has on YouTube, and I found them very helpful for learning walking. Actually, I've learned far more from the upright teachers about how to walk than I have from the EB guys, even though I cannot read the music that usually accompanies the lesson.
 
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#26
Dr. Cheese said:
When I was young, I hated Ron Carter, because I felt he talked trash about the bass guitar. Over time his tone changed, I could tell he respected folks who were good at playing bass guitar. The other thing that changed was developing some empathy on my part. I knew what it was like to see my favorite instrument lose popularity to bass synth. I played some bass synth back in the day, but I never loved it like bass guitar. Finally, after listening to Red Clay and a few other tunes, it was obvious that Ron Carter could have been an incredible bass guitarist if he had wanted to make the change.

I follow Ron Carter on Facebook and he is the epitome of living well and aging gracefully. He is still a great player and I listen to him every chance I get.
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I don't remember him ever talking trash about bass guitar. He did feel he couldn't devote enough time to achieve what he wanted to if he used both double-bass and bass guitar, so he gave bass guitar up and left it for those who were better suited to it. Some kept at it, but many, like Ron, came back to solely double-bass. He must be doing something right - he's still walking his bass to gigs in NYC!

He probably felt guys like Don Payne and Jimmy Lewis were doing better at it than he had time to. Jimmy also abandoned bass guitar, eventually.
One of his interviews talks about the time he spent with RVG at his studio learning how to record his bass. Apparently RVG and Carter were good friends and got together as family with kids around and the wives nearby. He would go over on a weekend and RVG would work on Ron's recorded sound.
 
#27
frankie5string said:
I don't remember him ever talking trash about bass guitar. He did feel he couldn't devote enough time to achieve what he wanted to if he used both double-bass and bass guitar, so he gave bass guitar up and left it for those who were better suited to it. Some kept at it, but many, like Ron, came back to solely double-bass. He must be doing something right - he's still walking his bass to gigs in NYC!

He probably felt guys like Don Payne and Jimmy Lewis were doing better at it than he had time to. Jimmy also abandoned bass guitar, eventually.
One of his interviews talks about the time he spent with RVG at his studio learning how to record his bass. Apparently RVG and Carter were good friends and got together as family with kids around and the wives nearby. He would go over on a weekend and RVG would work on Ron's recorded sound.
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I remember some remarks from Downbeat I did not like. I remember him saying that he got tone with his hands while bass guitarist turn knobs. That is not the exact quote, but that was nearly fifty years ago. I was in my teens and maybe I got mad over nothing. I probably should have been practicing chords and scales instead reading Downbeat in the first place.
 
#28
Dr. Cheese said:
I remember some remarks from Downbeat I did not like. I remember him saying that he got tone with his hands while bass guitarist turn knobs. That is not the exact quote, but that was nearly fifty years ago. I was in my teens and maybe I got mad over nothing. I probably should have been practicing chords and scales instead reading Downbeat in the first place.
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At that time (mid to late 70s) many of my musician friends around New York and Boston were contemplating going all acoustic, including me. I didn't/couldn't stick with upright bass for a variety of reasons but I'm super glad I gave it a shot for a couple of years, it has served me really well in the long term. Carter was controversial and outspoken back then, but personally I think he was actually mostly right in the moment too. Not sure how I never managed to see him play live, especially since I was working out of one of his method books.
 
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#31
Dr. Cheese said:
Wynton Marsalis is a year younger than me and he has always been an outspoken critic of Fusion. Even in recent years, he would not recognize Weather Report's Heavy Weather as album worthy to be regarded as classic. In the early Eighties, it seemed like all sorts of people were coming for electric instruments, so it was in this context that I felt hostile to Ron Carter.

As a much older man, I have come to the conclusion that there no is point in letting other people's opinions on creative things, like music, bother me. Folks like what they like. Even more important, I should never blind myself to someone's else's art, whether the person rubs the wrong way or not. The antidote to narrow mindedness is not more narrow mindedness. It is open mindedness.
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I don't understand the criticism. If you dig something, then just stay in your lane! Miles Davis was a traditional jazz musician who decided he wanted to move into a new direction and play with younger musicians. It's ok. There's music for everyone. If you don't dig something, keep it moving. And by the way, doubling had zero effect on Stanley Clark, John Patitucci, Christain McBride and Brian Bromberg to name a few. So I take some folks opinions like a grain of salt.
 
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#32
Dr. Cheese said:
Wynton Marsalis is a year younger than me and he has always been an outspoken critic of Fusion. Even in recent years, he would not recognize Weather Report's Heavy Weather as album worthy to be regarded as classic. In the early Eighties, it seemed like all sorts of people were coming for electric instruments, so it was in this context that I felt hostile to Ron Carter.

As a much older man, I have come to the conclusion that there no is point in letting other people's opinions on creative things, like music, bother me. Folks like what they like. Even more important, I should never blind myself to someone's else's art, whether the person rubs the wrong way or not. The antidote to narrow mindedness is not more narrow mindedness. It is open mindedness.
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One of the funniest comments in jazz pertains here. When Miles Davis and Wynton first met. Young Marsalis already was outspoken with his opinions on what is and isn't Jazz. Miles of course was a searcher, an experimenter. And so when Wynton first came to say hello, Miles was overheard saying "here comes the police". Or so the story goes.
 
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#33
DWBass said:
I don't understand the criticism. If you dig something, then just stay in your lane! Miles Davis was a traditional jazz musician who decided he wanted to move into a new direction and play with younger musicians. It's ok. There's music for everyone. If you don't dig something, keep it moving. And by the way, doubling had zero effect on Stanley Clark, John Patitucci, Christain McBride and Brian Bromberg to name a few. So I take some folks opinions like a grain of salt.
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DWBass said:
I don't understand the criticism. If you dig something, then just stay in your lane! Miles Davis was a traditional jazz musician who decided he wanted to move into a new direction and play with younger musicians. It's ok. There's music for everyone. If you don't dig something, keep it moving. And by the way, doubling had zero effect on Stanley Clark, John Patitucci, Christain McBride and Brian Bromberg to name a few. So I take some folks opinions like a grain of salt.
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All of those doublers you mentioned are 14-36 years younger than Ron Carter. I think growing up hearing an instrument makes a difference.
 
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#34
Dr. Cheese said:
All of those doublers you mentioned are 14-36 years younger than Ron Carter. I think growing up hearing an instrument makes a difference.
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Honestly, I don't think it makes a difference. Acoustic bass is typically associated with traditional jazz/orchestral music. But the point I'm making is they are equally virtuoso on both instruments.
 
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#36
DWBass said:
I don't understand the criticism. If you dig something, then just stay in your lane! Miles Davis was a traditional jazz musician who decided he wanted to move into a new direction and play with younger musicians. It's ok. There's music for everyone. If you don't dig something, keep it moving. And by the way, doubling had zero effect on Stanley Clark, John Patitucci, Christain McBride and Brian Bromberg to name a few. So I take some folks opinions like a grain of salt.
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I saw Miles once, at Auditorium Theater in Chicago, late 70's or early 80's, cannot remember exactly. His band took the stage and played for about 20 minutes, but no Miles. Finally, Miles walked out, wearing his traditional dark shades, blew about three notes on his trumpet, shook his head, and walked off stage. He never returned, and the band played on for about another 40 minutes without him.
 
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#38
DWBass said:
Honestly, I don't think it makes a difference. Acoustic bass is typically associated with traditional jazz/orchestral music. But the point I'm making is they are equally virtuoso on both instruments.
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My point is that generation can make a difference. I am a product of the Funk era. I respect Rap, but I am just not into it like folks just five or ten years younger than me. I just don't think Ron Carter felt the connection to electric that those younger cats felts.
 

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