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Timing - Bass and Drummer

J

Jawbone

Jul 15, 2010
377
2
Humboldt County
#1
I'm totally new to bass and trying to play in a band. Still seeking a good instructor to help me out. But since I don't have one yet, I have to rely on the expertise of this site – hopefully these are easy questions. LOL

Does the bass sync with the drummer? If so what am I suppose to be listening for? Cymbals, snare, kick?
Would it be worth the investment in getting a drum machine to play along to?

I know tabs aren’t the most beloved method of instruction, but it does provide the quickest route to actually playing a song. I tried overlapping drum tabs with bass tabs and most of the time they don’t sync up – I know, my first mistake. So hopefully I can learn the right method here.
 
#2
Syncing in with the drummer is perhaps the most important thing you can do - think of the bass as 'melodic drums'. Speak to the drummer about how he plays his beats and look at what he's doing. Most keep the beat on the hi hat with accents on the snare and kick. I find it easiest to link with the snare as i can hear it best - but do what works for you.

Don't worry about drum tab. learn your part from the bass tab. practise it with a metronome or drum machine, and listen to your drummer.

good luck!
 
#3
It's what sounds best. Here is a bit of basic funk theory, but not a completely necessary element: if you are playing in standard 4/4 time, your root note should be on sync with the 1 (1, 2, 3, 4, repeat). From then 'till the 4, you can do whatever you want just as long as you are in sync with the 1. Usually, the 1 would be the first kick (from the drummer), which would be playing on the bass drum. Watch this video with John Patitucci and Dave Weckl, and notice his technique in sync with the bass drum:
The bass is generally a bridge between the beat and the melody, so use it proportionally.
I am not a music teacher and I do not know much about music theory, but this is my general suggestion.
 
#4
I like to sync up with 1 and 3 with the kick drum. Sometimes it's cool to cut out on 2 and 4 where the snare goes to accent your drummer. The hit-hat or ride will always give you an idea of the songs tempo.

My best suggestion is just listen to alotta rock and jam as much as you can with a solid drummer. It will come naturally.
 
#5
This is a subtle but deep point in discussion here.

The 'feel' of the tune can be 'leaned' forwards by anticipating the downbeat, and 'layed back' by hitting it just slightly behind the beat (like a blues).

Rock solid hammering on the 1's and 3's, or doubling up playing 8ths with emphasis on downstrokes is very powerful when syncing with a drummer.

I regularly practice with a drum machine (Dr. Boss) and it amazes me how much I learn every time I pay close attention to the beat.
 
#7
Well, everyone has to keep time, no matter what else is going on. And, you need to establish the essential elements of the groove, swing, feel, etc. For me, the kick is way less important than the high-hat. That's where the GROOVE is. The kick/snare are the basic elements that define the time the drummer's hearing. But the hat (and the ride cymbal) tell me how the thing flows.

John
 
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#8
Sometimes you'll find that the beats you need to emphasize are the same as the bass drum, but most of the time they aren't. If the drummer is already playing on those beats, why would you need to as well? He's got it covered; go find your own beats to play on.
 
#9
i think there are times where a dead sync with the drummer's bass drum is what's needed, but there are also times where totally ignoring the drummer is awesome. i also believe that the bassist should take the lead role in the bassist/drummer dynamic, and if anyone's going to play to anyone, it should be the drummer playing to the bass. why? because most of the time the bassist should be getting his/her cues on what to play from the main rhythmic instrument of the song, which is almost never drums.

of course you can't tell them that or they get all snitty.
 
#12
As a general idea...landing on beat 1 with the drummer is normally a good starting point. (As with everything knowing when to break the rules is also important, but that will come.) This will generally mean landing with the kick drum.

Personally I tend to frame things around the snare drum. A good practice exercise is to set the metronome to click on just 2 and 4 and then play with it so that you're not relying on it to drag you into play 1 in the right place.

In a live situation the snare and hi hats are often more audible than the bass drum anyway so hanging your part around the snare makes sense to me.

Abe Labroriel once said that all of music can be divided into ooom and paa paa. The bass player should go ooom so that someone else can go paa paa.
 
#13
JimmyM said:
i think there are times where a dead sync with the drummer's bass drum is what's needed, but there are also times where totally ignoring the drummer is awesome. i also believe that the bassist should take the lead role in the bassist/drummer dynamic, and if anyone's going to play to anyone, it should be the drummer playing to the bass. why? because most of the time the bassist should be getting his/her cues on what to play from the main rhythmic instrument of the song, which is almost never drums.

of course you can't tell them that or they get all snitty.
Click to expand...

LOL, if they do, I can always flip the time over on them. :eek:

Always gets their attention, and there are places and grooves where it sounds just great.
 
#16
Wow, guys - thanks a lot - I don't think i could get this much info or feedback from 5 lessons!! Beside now I have a whole other vocabulary to learn! Now I have to find my "groove".

I listen to music through the line in to my amp and seem to be keeping time to the bass groove, but most of the time I don't hear the drum beat that clear. Is there a better technique or method when practicing?
 
#17
When playing along with a recording, you might want to try playing the music through a stereo or computer with good speakers. The drums will probably come through more clearly. You'll also have better control over the volume of the recording. Turn up the recording or turn down your bass until you can hear the drums better.

It might also help to really focus on the drums while you're practicing like this. It might be hard at first, but, after a while, hearing what the drums are doing should become second nature.
 
#18
PM me and I'll email you a click track mp3.

DO NOT buy a drum machine yet.. If you're serious about synching it's much more forgiving to play with tons of activity.

I spent HUGE bucks to take a lesson with a VERY well known guy last year.

  1. Lesson #1 - practice with a metronome (not drum machine)
  2. Lesson #2 - the difference between a super star and average band dork is muting quality

=======

Back to your question.

I always have my students look silly.... ... we'll start out by standing up and walking to the beat.. we'll then stomp SUPER hard on the 1 (with the right foot)... we'll then stand in place only stomping (with the right on 1)..

Students are not to pick up a bass until they can walk and stomp to the beat and have it look 2nd nature.

(the reason to stomp the 1 with the right is this is the bass drum foot for most drummers -- helps you sych closer)

Videos
If you're looking for some good inexpensive sources, Verdine White (earth wind and fire) has a good video from the early 90s that strips down some of the bands most successful tunes... you'd be amazed at How little the guy is really playing.. and how accurately he hits the 1.

=====

There will be guys that will speak about being "behind or ahead" of the beat... as a beginner just nailing the 1 and 3 every time all the time on time is more imporatant than discussing Afro-Cuban note placement etc.

=======

Man I wish you were here -- you sound like an incredible guy to work with.

Please PM me for a click track and when I can be of service

Timmy
 
#19
@ Jawbone ... one other thing about you and the drummer and time

Neither the drummer NOR the bass player is responsible for stopping the band being "in time". Everyone is responsible for time.

You or the drummer may play a part that keeps time but it's the guitarist's job to play the guitar part in time and your job to play the bass in time etc. etc.

The result of this is that you must not rely on the drummer for time. You'll hear pros talking about developing your "clock", this is your ability to play in time without reference to anyone else.

The most common way I've come across to practice this is to set up a click and play to it, then cut back to 2 clicks per bar, then 1 click per bar. Keep cutting the click back and back and back. The fewer clicks the more you have to rely on your own internal sense of time.

This is where a drum machine can come in handy as you can set up things like 3 bars of click and 1 bar of silence etc. etc.

The more you do this the better your "clock" will become. This will mean that your band is able to lean on you more and more. Also it means you won't get phased if other people f*ck up.

Good luck...welcome to The Pocket
 

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