Timing who needs a mentronome?

[Russell L]

But, if you can hang with a metronome then you have a much better chance of staying with the fluctuaters than if you can't stick with the click.

That's a viable way of seeing it, true. I have used mine at times, just for the heck of it, mainly to keep me going when playing alone, though, not necessarily to train my timing as such. But, when I play alone sometimes I have the tendency to slow down unless I'm playing along with a CD.

I know a metronome is useful, nonetheless, for training timing as well. I just don't use one much myownself.

Now, what about a "Metro-gnome?" Anyone seen one around?

 

[phillybass101]

Every bass player I've heard demo a bass and play some BS slap bass line needs a metronome that's who. Guys it's no good if you can't keep time. Having a metronome or a steady beat/pulse is a necessity for working up up a killer slap bass line. Without the time keeping element explains why most of it sounds like wanking. All the classic killer slap bass lines out there were done IN TIME. not just a lick here, run there, pause, play another line. If I hear another guy try to slap on a demo and lose the groove I'm gonna snap . To all of you guys out there who want to KNOW how to slap in time and what it should sound like and how it fits in the song and moves the song etc. Listen to this OLD Tune. SILLY FIGHTING by George Duke the studio version. it's on youtube. Consider it a lesson on how to play syncopated slap bass and still keep the groove. By the way it's Louis Johnson if you can't tell. he's groovin, keeping time and still funkin it up. something many slappers can't do but need to go back and learn how to.

 

[phillybass101]

The constant click of the metronome is really training you to pay attention and concentrate. You get used to paying attention and concentrating and your timing will improve. All through repetiton.

 

[JimmyM]

Although it's not my strong suit, I slapped for 15 years before ever getting a metronome or drum machine, and nobody ever complained about my timing.

 

[smeet]

Although it's not my strong suit, I slapped for 15 years before ever getting a metronome or drum machine, and nobody ever complained about my timing.

Nobody other than me seemed to complain about that Asia song either, and that is a prime example of unmusical rushing. Pissed me off when it first came out, and now it's pissing me off again.

I view metronome work as another kind of ear training. Nobody complains about my timing either, but I still work on it, both with and without a metronome. Every year I feel my time is stronger, and not in a soulless-machine-perfect way either.

 

[JimmyM]

Your beard also grows 6 inches longer every year, so I think that has a lot to do with it, too

I still believe that a metronome won't give you good time, and I think you getting better with time would just be a result of all those years of experience adding up. It's like the Wizard Of Oz...Scarecrow always had a brain, Tin Man always had a heart, and Cowardly Lion always had courage.

Spoiler alert.

 

[smeet]

Your beard also grows 6 inches longer every year, so I think that has a lot to do with it, too

I still believe that a metronome won't give you good time, and I think you getting better with time would just be a result of all those years of experience adding up. It's like the Wizard Of Oz...Scarecrow always had a brain, Tin Man always had a heart, and Cowardly Lion always had courage.

Spoiler alert.

Sadly, the beard is now in the past. A moment of uncomfortable silence, please.

Yes, my improvements are due to the hours of practice and experience I've put in, just as they are for anybody else. My feeling is that the time I've put in with a metronome is a part of that experience.

Metronomes are great for getting your speed and endurance up on a passage (speed up the tempo bit by bit). They are also great to throw your ear a curve-ball (hear the click on two and four, or hear the click on the first 16th of beat 2, etc.). You can also test your steadiness by having a very slow click, either for a fast tempo (click every four measures), or a slow tempo (play quarter notes with a click at 40 or 35 bpm). In the past I have spent quite some practice time playing quarter notes along with a metronome, trying to get it to sound perfectly synced. Obviously it's subjective, but I felt immediate gains from this exercise, especially the next time I would play with other people.

Classical Indian musicians (and some upright players) play with a tonic (/fifth) drone. This helps their intonation, and it doesn't mean their intonation is bad without the drone. It gives them a reference point against which to hone their relative pitch perception. I feel metronomes can fill this same role with respect to rhythm.

 

[JimmyM]

Just as an aside, I think we need before/after shots of the beard

 

[jallenbass]

Metronomes are great for getting your speed and endurance up on a passage (speed up the tempo bit by bit).

When I was studying in conservatory most everyone used that practice technique.

 

[wishface]

I entirely accept what JB says about metronome's. He was saying it when I last read Bass Player and that was 20 odd years ago (and inexplicably all my old copies have vanished!). But what I would like to know, if he has addressed this, is how do you develop speed and facility, in a purely technical sense, without playing to an increasing beat?

 

[smeet]

I entirely accept what JB says about metronome's.

If you have come to the same conclusion from your personal experience, then you've figured out what works for you. But don't simply accept somebody else's proclamation that you shouldn't even try using a potentially very helpful tool. Everybody is different and learns in different ways. Jeff is a much better player than I will ever be, and I accept that a metronome wouldn't help him be a better player. But I feel it's helped me.

And I don't buy that using a metronome or any other practice tool will ruin your natural feel. You still have your ears.

how do you develop speed and facility, in a purely technical sense, without playing to an increasing beat?

If you feel that a metronome can help you develop speed and facility, and you don't know of a better way, then why not just use the metronome? Even if you don't feel it improves your groove or time, it has its uses. Useful tool is useful.

 

[odin70]

I would like to see Jeff Berlin tell these guys that they are wrong


Pat Met
...I happened to read a Pat Metheny interview. The interviewer asked Pat something about his timing or how he developed his timing and Pat said that doing exercises along with a metronome was one of the things that he did.

Marcus Miller
As for time I like the metronome better than drum machine. First practice just clapping 4/4 with the metronome. The most don't realize is if you time is good the sound of the metronome should disappear, your claps should mask it out. Then speed part of your practice time counting out loud the beats; 1, 2, 3, 4. Just the beats not subdivisions, no 1 and 2 and 3 and etc. This can be tough if your playing some syncopated stuff. Take a line like Michael Jackson Billie Jean and play and count good starting point. Try just count out loud and play two eighth notes on one for one measure and second measure go up the neck and play a simple fill and back to hit those eighth notes. Yes, keep counting out loud. That kind of stuff will really development that internal metronome.

Vinnie Colaiuta
"Make the metronome your friend, not your enemy"

John Petrucci
I can't stress this enough," Petrucci says. "Using a metronome allows you to focus. You have this thing clicking, and it's unforgiving, it doesn't care what else is going on around you. 'Tick-tock, tick-tock, play-the-part, play-the-part.'
"To me, there's no question that using a metronome develops your speed and accuracy. If you're learning scales or you're jamming on parts that you can't quite pull off, it's a must.
"Using a metronome will allow you to play cleaner - and that'll make your 'feel' have more, well, 'feeling'" Dream Theater's John Petrucci"When you use a metronome, you'll start to notice where the notes are falling, if they're on the beat, behind the beat, between the beat, and so on.

Gary Willis
Try to be creative when you practice. Learn to solve your own problems, create your own exercises. Try to create music (grooves, lines, etc.) and you'll discover plenty of things to work on that directly relate to making music, not just somebody else's routine. Do it all with a metronome, but leave out the downbeats (put the metronome on 2 & 4, or upbeats).


Michael Brecker
“I have at times used a metronome on 2 and 4. I get depressed when I do it because I rush. It [playing with a metronome on 2 and 4] does help.”

Steve Vai
I want know what you guys/gals think of metronomes. I know Steve Vai swears by it, and how he spent 10hours a day using it.

Jeff Andrews
You should record yourself and work with the metronome as much as possible.

John Patitucci
Patitucci also recommends setting your metronome to about 52 bpm and playing all the E
's on the bass, and then all the F 's, etc., as shown in Ex. 2. (This exercise was introduced
by Joe Hubbard in July/Aug '93.) If you have a 5- or 6-string bass-or a 24-fret neck-be
sure to extend the range of this exercise. You can go up chromatically or use the Circle of
Fifths until you've played every note on the instrument.
"If you want to get slick with this exercise," says John, "take any arpeggio-Fm7, for
example-and during each beat play the entire arpeggio in a different place on the neck."
Ex. 3 shows all the in-position Fm7 arpeggios on the neck. (There are out-of-position
possibilities as well.) Start very slowly; consider shutting off the metronome until you
can shift from one position to the next. Once you have your shifts down, find a tempo at
which you can play comfortably, and then gradually increase the tempo.


Gary Burton
Jazz vibraphonist and longtime Berklee educator Gary Burton suggests practicing with a metronome in order to develop a steady sense of pulse.

Mike Stern
Stern is revered for his envy-inducing chops. However, rather than sit around and practice picking exercises all day long, he developed his chops by practicing tunes with a metronome, very gradually upping the speed.

John Goldsby
I think that a metronome is a useful tool when practicing; just like "play-along" CDs, "Band-In-A-Box," and drum machines.

Tom Kennedy
...Kennedy concludes, “Practice the piece slowly—preferably with an incremental metronome that puts out triplets, so you really feel the swing of it— then work your way up to tempo

Victor Wooten
Victor Wooten has a video of metronome exercises posted on the Korg site

Joe Satriani
Use a metronome! A great guitar player with poor timing and rhythm is not a great guitar player. If you do not own a metronome, buy one! If you cannot buy one, then search Google.com for the words “Free Metronome”. There are many options available. No excuses!

Lee Ritenour
The metronome is one of the most important tools in a guitarists’ arsenal. I believe that we should always rehearse with a metronome

 

[Tupac]

Another way it helps is that metronomes really get you to pay attention. Instead of zoning out from the drummer and just keeping your own time (common beginner mistake, it's why inexperienced bands don't sound so cohesive), the metronome teaches you to find where the down beat comes in when the drummer is playing and hit it. Look for that bass drum or snare, and try to hit the proper note in that pocket. That's what helps me. If I'm playing a complex phrase, I find the note that hits on the 1, and find the drum that's being hit, and I try to lock it right in. The notes inbetween each 1 just fall into the right spots then. Just worry about that 1!

 

[Clef_de_fa]

Jeff Berlin only says that if you learn music from sheet music, then down learn it with a metronome. Learn every note and all, then once you know by heart the note, then use a metronome to strenghten the rythm.

Don't try to learn the note in the same time you learn the rythm with a metronome it just isn't a good idea.

So in all, learn the melody and the rythm seperated.

Simple as that.

 

[odin70]

Jeff Berlin only says that if you learn music from sheet music, then down learn it with a metronome. Learn every note and all, then once you know by heart the note, then use a metronome to strenghten the rythm.

Don't try to learn the note in the same time you learn the rythm with a metronome it just isn't a good idea.

So in all, learn the melody and the rythm seperated.

Simple as that.

Not right. he have stated over and over again that he dont belive that working with a metronome will help you to strenghten your sense of time.

 

[JimmyM]

But does it really help or are we all off to see the Wizard to get what we always had and didn't realize it? And if it helps so much, how come there are folks I know who work with them daily and still rush and slow down just as bad as they always did?

 

[smeet]

But does it really help or are we all off to see the Wizard to get what we always had and didn't realize it? And if it helps so much, how come there are folks I know who work with them daily and still rush and slow down just as bad as they always did?

You know the answer to that. Like every other practice method, it can be used properly or improperly. It may work for some people and not for others.

I don't think it's productive in general to make blanket statements about learning methods. Jeff may believe that he has found a universal truth, but the whole reason that it's so controversial is that it works for some people.

Don't assume everybody already has a brain. Some people, like myself, need to ask The Great Metronome to give us one. Or at least to make our existing one a bit bigger.

Also, maybe the rushers and draggers you know simply can't learn to play with good time no matter what method they use.

 

[Clef_de_fa]

Not right. he have stated over and over again that he dont belive that working with a metronome will help you to strenghten your sense of time.

But as far as I know Jeff is classicaly trained on the violin and I'm also a classicaly trained DB player and this is how they teach to learn music.

Also in classical music the beat fluctuate a lot this is why he says that metronome wont give you good time.

I may not get what he says right but this is how I've learn and I'll stick to it.

 

[the yeti]

Now, what about a "Metro-gnome?" Anyone seen one around?

you mean this guy?

[/url]
Metrognome. by tiffa34, on Flickr[/IMG]

 

[bass_study]

Jeff Berlin only says that if you learn music from sheet music, then down learn it with a metronome. Learn every note and all, then once you know by heart the note, then use a metronome to strenghten the rythm.

Don't try to learn the note in the same time you learn the rythm with a metronome it just isn't a good idea.

So in all, learn the melody and the rythm seperated.

Simple as that.

He means when you learn some new stuff, u should not use metronome. when you are using metronome, it is like a performance nature, even maybe you just trying to get through the song