Tips on duo playing?

[Kügel]

Hey everyone,

Since about a month I started jamming with a drummer. The basic idea behind it is that we want to play in a open/free setting (read: free jazz/improvisation). His playing is really well and it's probably the best drummer I've ever played with, but I'm having difficulties on my end.
I've been playing in rock/punk/metal bands for the past 10 years and I still find most of my playing to be rooted in that. So we usually just end up grooving, and it's fun, but it's never quite as "jazzy" nor as wild as I'd like it to be.
We also have the usual buildups and I think it gets a bit boring after a while... (buildup, climax, comedown, repeat).

Anyone here who has some experience or tips to share?

 

[Mushroo]

If your songs aren't "jazzy and wild" enough, then you need to write compositions that are jazzier and wild. Or find existing tunes that are jazzy and wild, and cover them, make them your own. Jazz musicians don't just make **** up, you know.

What songs come to mind when you think "jazzy and wild drum & bass duet"? Maybe if we look at some Youtube videos together, we can analyze some musical elements of great performances. Also, we can draw inspiration from other drum + ____ duos, it doesn't just have to be bassists. For example have you heard John Coltrane's "Interstellar Space" drum+sax duet album yet? That's some jazzy and wild stuff right there! I bet if you transcribed those Coltrane solos, you would get a lot of musical-vocabulary ideas for your drum+bass duo. Or what about a group like The Bad Plus? Their gimmick is giving wild+jazzy performances of well-known pop songs. Or what about a Grateful Dead song like "The Other One"? If you ignore the other instruments and just focus on the drums&bass, you'll hear some wild+jazzy interplay in a rock context. Can you think of some more songs that are worth listening, studying, and stealing/borrowing licks?

 

[Spin Doctor]

Well, from my perspective, a song ain't a song without some kind of melody. So maybe look at loop pedals to create a background, then you could build a melody on top of that. Also, jammin and groovin is cool, but after about three songs of that, it's like "what else you got?" I think you would need to figure out a way to create different vibes and textures. Even a full band that can't create a vibe that's different than all the other stuff they do, is boring to me.

Main thing is that you gotta have something to say.

 

[nzscott]

go 3 piece....get a guitar in the mix , then you can relax ,kick back and enjoy the space .....that's what I would do .

 

[MalcolmAmos]

Grooving a bass line to his kick drum pattern works, but, begs the question what should the bass line consist of? Chord tones or scale notes - of what key? Well it's kinda up to you. Here is a suggestion on how scale notes could be used; Visualize a 12 bar blues progression and you playing a pentatonic scale and or the blues scale over that 12 bar blues progression - would be a place to start. Any key, it's kinda your choice. Make use of the following notes - and then use them as you see them flowing, i.e. improvise.

Major pentatonic = R-2-3-5-6
Minor pentatonic = R-b3-4-5-b7
Blues scale ........= R-b3-4-b5-5-b7

Major Scale Box.
G~~|---2---|-------|---3---|---4---| 1st string
D~~|---6---|-------|---7---|---8---|
A~~|---3---|---4---|-------|---5---|
E~~|-------|---R---|-------|---2---|4th string
Same box you've seen with dots. Want the A chord or root note? Place the box's R over the A note located at the 4th string 5th fret - the notes of the scale or chord await you.

12 Bar Blues Progression
R///.|IV///|R///|R///|
IV///|IV///|R///|R///|
V///.|V///.|R///|V///| to loop or R to end. Yes you could make it all dominant seven chords if you like and R-3-5-b7 for chord tones would work.

If you are an A, B, C person instead of a 1, 2, 3, person the following may come in handy; Invalid Link Removed

Have fun.

 

[DeaconBlues09]

Can't recommend this enough: Got some sort of delay pedal where you could record loops, use an octave and/or pitch shift setting and jam over it as the drummer locks in.

FWIW, the Zoom B3 will give you the loops, a metronome (in case your drummer doesn't have impeccable timing) a half dozen flavors of Octave effects, and Synth sounds that work fantastically for the loop phrases! And the price can't be beat for the wealth of features!

Check this guy out!