To compress or not

[smogg]

I never mastered the art of compression. A couple of my amps have had it built in, and I’ve played around with it on my Zoom, but I found exactly what you are saying. If there is enough compression to notice that it is on, it’s too much.

Agreed, this seems to be my dilemma.

So the question is, what benefit is it? If it’s on, but you can’t notice it, why put it on at all.

This is where I get stuck for live play. In the studio compression has always been added as needed during mixdown. I just don't quite "get it" apparently for live mix. All I know is that I do not like the artificial "squished"' sound on a SS amp. I get the "natural" compression of an all tube amp and I'm OK with it. But I use SS amps pretty much exclusively as a weekend warrior for a variety of reasons that I'll save for another thread.

Really appreciate the input all. Please keep it going

 

[smogg]

I use compression at a quite mild setting, I can't really hear the effect with my clean sound. However, it's quite noticeable in combination with other pedals; dirt pedals break up more evenly across strings and filter pedals are tamed and more controllable. Maybe I could spend half a lifetime woodshedding with a certain bass and learn how to do this with just my hands, but frankly, I have more interesting things to do with my time.

Ah, maybe you hit on something there. Lets just say I've been playing for while (OK a long while) bass to amp no effects to speak of. Maybe my ear just can't hear the benefit?

 

[Mystic Michael]

I never mastered the art of compression. A couple of my amps have had it built in, and I’ve played around with it on my Zoom, but I found exactly what you are saying. If there is enough compression to notice that it is on, it’s too much.

So the question is, what benefit is it? If it’s on, but you can’t notice it, why put it on at all.

Maybe I need to clarify a bit: I don't mean to state that the compressor will literally be undetectable. I"m only suggesting that when it's dialed in properly, the effect will be subtle and unobtrusive. As a musician, presumably with working ears, you should be able to detect a compressor in effect, even if only barely, and even if you didn't already know it was in your signal chain. Anyone with untrained ears would likely not detect it at all.

In addition to FretNoMore's helpful reply, I would add that there are several other potential applications. For example, if you slap and tap, you can use a compressor as a limiter (high threshold, high ratio) in order to tame too-aggressive attacks and keep from overdriving your amp's input circuit. If you're into fretless, a compressor can add some much-needed sustain, while accentuating those valuable midrange frequencies. And of course if you want to go nuts, you can crank up the parameters and use it as another type of sound effect, not too dissimilar from an envelope filter or phase effect.

Gettin' the picture now?

MM

 

[MikeBass]

Compress.....always.
My thoughts on the subject:

 

[JimmyM]

Not into compression anymore. Was at one time, then I forgot to turn it on one night, realized my mistake and fixed it, played one song, and turned it right back off and never brought it back. And this was a pretty good little compressor...the FMC RNC 1773. Besides, I'm sure I'm being compressed in the PA on about 95% of our gigs anyway.

 

[OOD]

Maybe I need to clarify a bit: I don't mean to state that the compressor will literally be undetectable. I"m only suggesting that when it's dialed in properly, the effect will be subtle and unobtrusive. As a musician, presumably with working ears, you should be able to detect a compressor in effect, even if only barely, and even if you didn't already know it was in your signal chain. Anyone with untrained ears would likely not detect it at all.

In addition to FretNoMore's helpful reply, I would add that there are several other potential applications. For example, if you slap and tap, you can use a compressor as a limiter (high threshold, high ratio) in order to tame too-aggressive attacks and keep from overdriving your amp's input circuit. If you're into fretless, a compressor can add some much-needed sustain, while accentuating those valuable midrange frequencies. And of course if you want to go nuts, you can crank up the parameters and use it as another type of sound effect, not too dissimilar from an envelope filter or phase effect.

Gettin' the picture now?

MM

Listen to Mystic Michael. He knows what he is talking about. You don't need a compressor live, but they can help you cut through the mix sometimes.

 

[zagralin_arf]

I always use a compressor live. I use it pretty heavily, I like the consistency it gives my sound. Being in a metal band with 2 distorted guitars it keeps my volume consistent so I don't feel the need to play harder live, which happened when we had bad sound and I wasn't using compression. After practicing enough with it even if sound is terrible I know that the volume is consistent and there and peaks in my playing don't get buried by the guitars, or be too overpowering.

As for it killing dynamics, it does to an extent. In my band it is important for the bass to consistent in volume and attack. I wouldn't be able to play like this in other styles of music, but it works for what I do. I'd suggest giving one a try. It really helps with the feel, having the compressor dialed right makes my strings feel like lightning bolts of power.

 

[smogg]

FWIW: I rarely use a compressor on my bass for leveling (its a dynamics killer), however I sometime use a compressor as an effect (squashed), or in combination with others petals.

I recommend trying one, play with it and see if its something you like or not.

PS: you'd most likely get more replies to your question on the "Effects" forum.

There are a lot more reasons to use a comp than controlling your dynamics, although that's one if the most popular. Plenty of comps on the market are used for tonal enhancement rather than clinical compression.

You'd get a lot more responses in the Effects forum.

Maybe that is part of my problem. I've never really looked at compressors as an "effect" per say, but more as a tool like the gain knob on the amp or my tuner. Guess that's why I started this thread in the "amps" forum instead of the "effects" forum. Definitely food for thought.

PS: Mods, if this thread is inappropriate for the amps section, feel free to move it to effects.
thank you

 

[jd-ns]

it's a sansamp pre for me, but +1; the little bit of drive and "grit" in the signal does the job of compressing enough for it to feel like an amp, while still allowing for normal playing dynamics.

agree - I use the VT bass DI - it does nice mild/natural compression - I have ditched my compressor

 

[Sundogue]

I use the VT Bass Deluxe pedal and I still use a compressor. I think for a lot of people it is an either/or situation, and like anything else a bass player uses it is all subjective. Use whatever gets you what you are looking for in tone, volume, dynamics, or just plain control over that which gives you the sound you hear in your head that does what it's supposed to for your gig.

I think there are also a lot of players who either don't understand compression, how to use it, or also maybe have had those simple (but often times ineffective) "single knob" compressors on amps that are more like an on/off switch with little to no control over threshold, ratio, attack or release...or even a separate output control to compensate for the amount of compression applied. And then, like all pieces of gear, there's that "you either love it or hate it" thing going on.

Use whatever works. I personally like it for a judiciously applied effect for a "tube amp through a sealed cab" type tone I'm after, although I also use it for a subtle, but effective dynamics control in a live situation where there is the adrenaline and excitement going on that ebbs and flows in songs throughout the night, even though for the most part my technique usually handles it. And then there is also using it as a limiter. I like a lot of sub 100Hz content, and simply bumping muted strings can still make the speakers "jump" a bit. So I use it for a lot of reasons actually. None of which kill my dynamics. I can still play loud or soft, sustain or mute, etc., none of which my compressor is either doing for me or working against me. But I have mine dialed in for my use, which may be entirely different than the way someone else dials theirs in, if in fact their compressor even allows for that.

 

[Groove Doctor]

Two MAJOR things missed
1) Multi-band compression.
The new standard.

2) Upward compression (aka Motown Compression):
blend direct signal with compressed signal. Fattens your sound while retaining dynamics.

 

[ddnidd1]

Two MAJOR things missed
1) Multi-band compression.
The new standard.

2) Upward compression (aka Motown Compression):
blend direct signal with compressed signal. Fattens your sound while retaining dynamics.

"Multi-band compression. The new standard." - that's debatable

"blend direct signal with compressed signal. Fattens your sound while retaining dynamics" - normally termed Parallel Compression

"Upward compression" - normally that would be Expansion

 

[Bassmec]

1. I talked about side chain EQing and multiband compression is more suitable for prosumer mastering a whole mix but has been steadily loosing out in favour, as most top end engineers are dusting off their hardware varimu tube compressors again.
2. It's called parallel compression.
This is the old standard Motown Compression:

When and if there was any added to the bass, as they got >6dB of compression in to out of their recording chain, without trying hard.
What with the UTC output trans in the multichannel tube DI they used, then another transformer in to the console then, Recording head, tape linear losses, Playback head, channel output transformer, bus input transformer, bus output, then whatever was in the 2 bus and out. Phew! that was about a 4 1/2lbs of Iron laminates and the odd bit of Iron oxide they have stuck to the tape the signals been through.
Digital multiband compression does not really sound that great in comparison with the old George Massenberg analougue multi band units. Sadly now out of production.:-(

 

[Dave W]

Maybe that is part of my problem. I've never really looked at compressors as an "effect" per say, but more as a tool like the gain knob on the amp or my tuner. Guess that's why I started this thread in the "amps" forum instead of the "effects" forum. Definitely food for thought.

Whether it's considered an effect or not there is significantly more information on compressors and compression in general in the Effects forum, that's why I recommended it.

 

[smogg]

Whether it's considered an effect or not there is significantly more information on compressors and compression in general in the Effects forum, that's why I recommended it.

I appreciate your input. Don't suppose you how to move a thread from one forum to another or can only a moderator do that?

 

[Joe Louvar]

Maybe that is part of my problem. I've never really looked at compressors as an "effect" per say, but more as a tool like the gain knob on the amp or my tuner. Guess that's why I started this thread in the "amps" forum instead of the "effects" forum. Definitely food for thought.

PS: Mods, if this thread is inappropriate for the amps section, feel free to move it to effects.
thank you

I think of compressors, & EQs more as processors than effects too, however for things that come in a rack/petal checkout the "Effects" forum anyways because you're question has most likely already been answered there a few times over, just saying and only trying to help. Cheers

PS: if you don't feel your question has already been answered here, or if the mods don't move your thread for you, just start a new one over there. Best wishes.

 

[smogg]

I think of compressors, & EQs more as processors than effects too, however for things that come in a rack/petal checkout the "Effects" forum anyways because you're question has most likely already been answered there a few times over, just saying and only trying to help. Cheers

PS: if you don't feel your question has already been answered here, or if the mods don't move your thread for you, just start a new one over there. Best wishes.

The help is appreciated. And yes, a lot of good info has been laid out. I guess I really need to try it in the band/gig context to see if it would be of any advantage to me.

Thanks all

 

[bravesaint5]

Let's make sure we're not comparing apples and oranges though:
~$200 compressor pedal (or built-in amp feature) - you're not really looking for "Studio Quality" signal compression, more for tonal or "squish" effect.
~$2000 rack-mount compressor - If I ever lugged one of these to a gig I would hope that someone questions my sanity. Because I'd have to be an eccentric millionaire to consider such a move.

 

[Fuzzbass]

The help is appreciated. And yes, a lot of good info has been laid out. I guess I really need to try it in the band/gig context to see if it would be of any advantage to me.

Thanks all

Best of luck! Compression can be a great thing. A big factor in Sir Paul's tone with The Beatles was pretty heavy compression.

My advice: IMO it's generally better to rehearse at home without compression. You want to learn how to control your dynamics as best as possible with your hands alone. In wonky gig environments the compressor will help your playing remain audible in the mix, or thicken your tone, but you don't want to become dependent on it: "I sound sloppy without compression". (Unless you're like me, and sound sloppy both with and without compression. )

Exception: you certainly want to learn how to use your compressor, understand what knobs do what. So, if necessary, use the compressor at home to help you become familiar with it. Once you figure it out, then I'd say only use it at gigs, or maybe band rehearsals if you feel you have to.

 

[Groove Doctor]

Thanks, I meant Parallel Compression. Any resident experts like to describe that?