To sub or not to sub

[Baz in Kent]

I have two of the B1200Ds and when I use them, I couple them in the center or on one side.

From my experience, I'd imagine that for a full band situation with acoustic drums and already using 15" mains, one B1200D would do next to nothing for you. Depending on how loud you're playing and what your expectations and wants are, even two coupled may or may not meet them.

I ended up with a heavy 15" sub that had been my contribution to a previous band PA. I have a time-to-time want to have some PA gear and got the Behringers as a replacement for the general PITA of dealing with the previous one. My hope and belief after trying them was that they'd be in the same ballpark performance-wise.

I think the nutshell on the B1200D is that for relatively low volume situations, two can enhance and thicken the bottom end of the image out front for a small PA using 10", 12" or even 15" mains. But that's never going to be a smaller scale version of chest thumping nightclub or concert venue bass and sub bass. If that's the expectation, I think disappointment will be likely.

My impression would be that for one B1200D to even do that thickening, your volume would have to be below any reasonable full band situation.

I started this thread when I was deciding what to do.

While you obviously can't hear a picture, this was a room that was generally full with a listed capacity of 140 where the pair of B1200Ds did a nice job.

Thanks. Maybe I’ll end up with 2 1200Ds but that kind of venue looks typical or maybe even a little bigger than most of ours. Most pubs are quite narrow rooms with the bar along one side.
We usually run the Peavey amp on around 2/10.
I expect I’m limiting myself for volume at larger venues but we’ll see I guess.

 

[Baz in Kent]

It doesn't matter what you're using, it's reproduction through the main/sub as two units with a crossover, and mingling with the lower frequencies of the guitar and the kick drum. It's not going to be like the tone you get from your bass rig without attention to EQ.

Fair play, just hoping it’s better with the sub than without.

 

[SoCal80s]

I would not use that system without a sub. Either get a sub, or get a Rumble 800 combo. The Rumble is lighter than any sub will be, but the sub would help the overall sound of the whole band (drums, keys, etc).

 

[Baz in Kent]

I would not use that system without a sub. Either get a sub, or get a Rumble 800 combo. The Rumble is lighter than any sub will be, but the sub would help the overall sound of the whole band (drums, keys, etc).

I’m going for the sub, by all accounts should improve the band’s sound.

 

[MIMike]

I can’t imagine that a sub for the P.A. would do enough for your bass sound through FOH to be a worthwhile investment.
The sub will do more for the kick drum than your bass, but it will probably improve the P.A. sound over-all…benefiting the whole bands sound.
I would never invest in a sub myself as a means to carry the bass frequencies. That particular sub isn’t designed to carry a very large room either. The marketing blurb on Sweetwater says “A single B1200D-PRO kicks out enough bass for a jazz combo in a dinner club”. I know it meets your cost and weight criteria, but if you don’t have a “performance criteria” it could be a total waste of money in the end.

 

[Baz in Kent]

I can’t imagine that a sub for the P.A. would do enough for your bass sound through FOH to be a worthwhile investment.
The sub will do more for the kick drum than your bass, but it will probably improve the P.A. sound over-all…benefiting the whole bands sound.
I would never invest in a sub myself as a means to carry the bass frequencies. That particular sub isn’t designed to carry a very large room either. The marketing blurb on Sweetwater says “A single B1200D-PRO kicks out enough bass for a jazz combo in a dinner club”. I know it meets your cost and weight criteria, but if you don’t have a “performance criteria” it could be a total waste of money in the end.

Yeah I get that, thanks. On the basis our overall sound should be improved I’m up for it as a first step, I’ve got 30 days to return it - so a few gigs (if I look after it!).

 

[MIMike]

Yeah I get that, thanks. On the basis our overall sound should be improved I’m up for it as a first step, I’ve got 30 days to return it - so a few gigs (if I look after it!).

That works! Take it for a test drive.

 

[bfields]

Have you considered a wireless system for your bass, so you could spend a song or two out front and see what it sounds like?

 

[Baz in Kent]

Have you considered a wireless system for your bass, so you could spend a song or two out front and see what it sounds like?

Good idea - I do have a wireless but haven’t used it for a while, I’ll fish it out.

 

[J Wilson]

Our rule of thumb was always guitars and vocals only, any good two or three-way cabinet was fine.

Add in kick-drum and bass, it's time for subs and more steam in the engine room.

 

[Baz in Kent]

Our rule of thumb was always guitars and vocals only, any good two or three-way cabinet was fine.

Add in kick-drum and bass, it's time for subs and more steam in the engine room.

We’ve got away without subs for 30 years, time to get in the 21st century!

 

[Wasnex]

I would not be all that excited about adding a B1200D. It does not appear to play loud or low.

Max SPL often means Peak...Continous SPL is most likely 112dB.

Compare to EV ZX1 Sub

Both weigh about 43lbs.

The EV has far superior performance. Of course the cost is 2x or slightly more.

 

[Baz in Kent]

Compare to EV ZX1 Sub
View attachment 5397272

Both weigh about 43lbs.

The EV has far superior performance. Of course the cost is 2x or slightly more.

Isn’t it passive?
Ah, I see there’s an active model - ZXA-1 - as you say over £700.
It's a possibility if the Eurolive doesn’t pan out.

 

[Mike Caldwell]

Isn’t it passive?
Ah, I see there’s an active model - ZXA-1 - as you say over £700.
It's a possibility if the Eurolive doesn’t pan out.

That one is passive, so you would need a power amp and crossover either external or built into the amp. You will need a high pass for your main speakers and external crossover would take care of both sub and mains.
The EV would need a high pass filter as well, call it 40hz.

 

[Wasnex]

Isn’t it passive?
Ah, I see there’s an active model - ZXA-1 - as you say over £700.

ZXA1 Sub specs

 

[walterw]

Thanks. Maybe I’ll end up with 2 1200Ds

yeah, i wouldn't

better to get one decent 15 or 18 sub for that same money (because the band will likely discover after hearing the difference that they eventually want two of those)

Unfortunately that wouldn’t meet my weight criterion...

...doesn’t meet my cost criterion.

unfortunately the same rules apply; light, cheap, adequate for the job, you get to pick two

(that said, PA gear is vastly lighter and more powerful than it used to be, if you buy recently used you might be able to squeeze in a little bit of "cheap" as well)

 

[TommyGunz]

Should the band's PA have a sub? Absolutely!

Should you as the bass player be required to purchase and transport the sub? Nope. Nope. Nope.

EDIT: I know I've been spoiled with good subs, but I would not waste time or money with a 12" sub. When it comes to subs I'd highly advise to go big or go home. I'd even go so far as to say get 1 really nice sub instead of 2 mediocre ones. You want a sub that can hit hard, go deep, and move some air. Having good subs adds to the experience of the show just as much if not more than the sound.

 

[Baz in Kent]

Should the band's PA have a sub? Absolutely!

Should you as the bass player be required to purchase and transport the sub? Nope. Nope. Nope.

EDIT: I know I've been spoiled with good subs, but I would not waste time or money with a 12" sub. When it comes to subs I'd highly advise to go big or go home. I'd even go so far as to say get 1 really nice sub instead of 2 mediocre ones. You want a sub that can hit hard, go deep, and move some air. Having good subs adds to the experience of the show just as much if not more than the sound.

Thanks and I can see why that’s how you’d handle it but if it’s either an amp or a sub it’s down to me. I may get contributions if the sub works out but doubt it.
There’s no point going for a bigger sub with an unusable weight so I’ll try the 12” and if it doesn’t work out I’ll get a lightweight bass amp and return the sub - assuming the sound just doesn’t cut it as it is (Helix through the PA).

 

[TommyGunz]

A sub is going to benefit the kick drum way more than the bass guitar unless you are playing a 5 string or drop tuning. If you really feel like the bottom end of your bass sound is lacking, upgrade your rig. I wouldn't spend time and money on a sub for the band's PA, YOU will get more bang for your buck upgrading your bass cabs. Plus some of the newer bass cabs are lighter than even 12" subs now a days anyway.

 

[Baz in Kent]

A sub is going to benefit the kick drum way more than the bass guitar unless you are playing a 5 string or drop tuning. If you really feel like the bottom end of your bass sound is lacking, upgrade your rig. I wouldn't spend time and money on a sub for the band's PA, YOU will get more bang for your buck upgrading your bass cabs. Plus some of the newer bass cabs are lighter than even 12" subs now a days anyway.

As mentioned way back at the start I don’t have a rig, I’m a guitarist switching to bass going through my Helix, with IEMs. Hence the question…