Told I play too much in Minor Pentatonic

[iriegnome]

It kind of hit me as swollowing a bitter pill that I just knew was the truth anyway.. Don't know why it is throwing me at all, but I play as I play.
My guitarist told me I play a lot in minor pentatonic. Please feel free to listen to anything I have done in the last 12 years (all under Cosmic Railroad) just about everywhere on the net.
I guess I do play in that style. I never had a lesson and my earliest 7 years of playing were 1950's - 1960's Johnny B Goode years.
I tend to play a lot in that style especially for fills.
Please, I would love (after 35 years of playing) to pick up a new "thing" if I could..
All suggestions would be cool. I mean, I don't know why it took so long to ask this, but there you have it.

 

[iriegnome]

Oh, I have tried hitting the 2 for differences or even the flat 7th from the 1, but I know that only is acceptable sometimes... BTW - I have no real clue as to what I am talking about.
I am self taught, but have played 35 years, in 25 states and 4 countries..

 

[DiabolusInMusic]

Keep doing what you're doing, just do it as the enharmonic major.

 

[Lobster11]

I'm a little confused. You've been the bass player for 12 years in a successful gigging band. Things seem to be going pretty well. Why would your guitar player bring this up now? Is the band starting to go in a different direction in some way, and he feels like your playing needs to change to keep up? Does he think the band's sound is stale, and that he wants you to introduce more variety? If so, I would ask him what kinds of new "things" he would like to hear you do that you're not doing now. Assuming you trust his judgment, he would be in a better position than any of us to make specific suggestions about what new things you could learn that would be most effective in the context of your band's sound.

I'm all for learning new tricks, and for working constantly to improve and expand one's repertoire -- but there's also something to be said for not fixing something that ain't broke.

 

[bass12]

Have you considered taking some lessons?

 

[20db pad]

He might be saying that you're putting minor pentatonic stuff where it doesn't really fit. Minor pentatonic is a safe choice that works most of the time, but not all the time. All the greats - Anthony, Jaco, Pino, Sheehan, Wooten, Marcus all play(ed) plenty of pentatonic stuff but nobody says "too much pentatonic" about them because it's so well done.

One way to change it up is to really know the positions of the pentatonic scale all up and down the neck. Just going 1-b3-4-5-b7-octave all the time in one position can get old really fast.

I've also known guitarists to learn a new vocabulary word and then use it in critiques. It isn't just bassists that only play box patterns and use too much minor pentatonic, trust me......

 

[iriegnome]

Good points. I never thought of it being kind of a staple or that he just meant I am hitting the minor when I shouldn't be. No, I would not consider lessons. Just me.. also my 3 guitar players are as follows - masters degree guitar educator, owner of a school for musicians (emphasis on guitar, masters degree on guitar), head instructor of guitar at said school of music. So, I consider their comments to be good, but take them for what they can be. However, I still work to be better if I can.

 

[MalcolmAmos]

Your learned friends are pointing you in a good direction. Minor pentatonic notes are great over minor chords, however over a major chord progression you would be better served using the major pentatonic - probably the same way you use the minor pentatonic notes, just change your pattern to major for major key songs. Songs in a major key like the 3 and 6. Songs in a minor key like the b3 and b7. Why clash? Major key song use the major pentatonic and minor key song use the minor pentatonic.

Minor pentatonic R-b3-4-5-b7 The root and five are generic. The b3 and b7 are minor tone notes and the 4 is a safe passing note.

G~~|---2---|-------|---3---|---4---| 1st string
D~~|---6---|--b7--|---7---|---8---|
A~~|---3---|---4---|-------|---5---|
E~~|-------|---R---|-------|---2---|--b3---| 4th string

Major pentatonic R-2-3-5-6 The root and five are generic. The 3 and 6 are major tones and the 2 is a safe passing note.

G~~|---2---|-------|---3---|---4---| 1st string
D~~|---6---|-------|---7---|---8---|
A~~|---3---|---4---|-------|---5---|
E~~|-------|---R---|-------|---2---|4th string

And the 8 is also a safe generic note for either one. So if you want to try something besides the pentatonic scale the ole R-5-8-5 is about as generic as you can get and falls into a groove nicely.

Give the major pentatonic a try. The shift to major pentatonic is not all that hard.

 

[iriegnome]

nice!! I like the 6 idea for the major. Maybe am already playing it, just not aware. Gotta pay attention to that. Not really sure. However, I didn't get angry by his comment, just wanted to explore it more.. Malcolm - Thanks!!

 

[Lobster11]

If you started out playing 50's-60's rock-and-roll, you've been using the major pentatonic scale from the get-go. The bass lines of a lot of those songs are basically 1-3-5-6 (often, 1-3-5-65). A classic example is the Rolling Stones' version of Route 66, with its main riff of 1-6-5321, where that 6th on the second beat really stands out.

 

[iriegnome]

That is what I was thinking. I have been playing this all along and was looking to break away from my comfort zone and expand my playing. My thing is that I hear what I am playing and it sounds pretty good to me. I think "Sure it could be more technical or more Fancy", but it seems to suit the song and fit well. I don't want to change my style, just add a bit to it..

 

[Lobster11]

I see that the band has two drummers and three guitarists. With all that going on, it seems tome that there isn't much room for you to get too fancy. The phrases "Keep it simple, stupid," and "less is more" come to mind.

If you just want to mix things up a bit from time to time, steal some riffs from Lesh or Gordon.

 

[pickles]

Just stop playing 3rds, problem solved

J/k. If you are the kind of guy that only plays originals, i suggest putting together a list of classic great bass songs (zep, motown, pink floyd, beatles) and learn them note for note. Also throw in some other styles -- modern country, lauren hill, eryka badu. Even if those songs are not your thing you will get ideas.

 

[iriegnome]

There is a lot going on on stage while we play. I play a rather full bass line whenever possible. Cutting down to 1/2 notes or even the up beat makes big differences in the whole beat. Kind of changes up what I play, but I am usually kind of careful because in a trippy jam kind of thing, going to an off beat or up beat straightens the jam out and ruins the fluidity of it. So 1/4 note vamps on a single note are something I have learned to play for minutes at a time.

 

[Lobster11]

Yeah, that makes sense to me. It also makes me re-think my suggestion about copping Lesh or Gordon riffs. I love those guys, but in your situation I think a better guy to steal some ideas from might be Keith Moseley, who is a master at keeping a jam grooving with simple, repetitive lines.

 

[Bass Master General]

Minor pentatonic can work over a major key if you're clever about where you put the color tones... the flat third can give it the blues vibe and the flat 7 is pretty standard. It just matters where you land them and if they clash or not... for instance, I love using a minor third (or even better, a minor second!) as a passing tone...

 

[Phalex]

Try the relative minor.

E minor Pentatonic works very well in G maj.

 

[Bass Master General]

Try the relative minor.

E minor Pentatonic works very well in G maj.

Which then becomes Gmaj pentatonic.

 

[Phalex]

Which then becomes Gmaj pentatonic.

Whoa!!!!

 

[Joebone]

Suggest two things:

learning and practicing some different scales, just to get your fingers and ears into a different place. You needn't get into a whole deep theory discipline, although that can be a good thing. I'd say pick the key of C, do the major scale up and down, a chromatic scale up and down, then work all seven of the classic greek modes. I'm sure you can find them on the web, but here's a way to work them for yourself - play your C scale. That's the Ionian mode. Then play the C scale, but starting on D and ending on D above (or below). You just played D Dorian. Than take those same note relationships (major scale, but a flat third and a flat seventh) and do the same thing, starting on C. So now you've worked a D Dorian and a C Dorian. Repeat from E to E, then back to C (Phrygian, flat the second, third, sixth and seventh notes, in E and C), etc. There are a zillion ways to think about modes (Wikipedia!), but the most important thing is to get them under your fingers and into your ears. You can do this without being a reader - so long as you know a major scale, and can understand when you've flatted or sharped a major scale tone as you play through the modes. Try to make it an ear thing more than a head thing. And this can grow in many ways - playing all basic modes in all keys is a great thing, leads to other hip things further still, etc. etc.

Next, as you're developing this knowledge, play along with familiar and new records [Dag, I'm getting old! familiar and new music in the format of your choice] and see if new things happen as you build alternative parts or solo over the tracks.

Enjoy!