Next weekend at church I’m going to run the Tone Hammer’s line out into a REDDI. I don’t know why but the engineer put the REDDI in the storage closet over a year ago and has been using a normal DI box. I talked him into using the REDDI again.
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Tone Hammer DI appreciation thread
- Thread starter dwagner
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- aguilar bethel tone hammer
Next weekend at church I’m going to run the Tone Hammer’s line out into a REDDI. I don’t know why but the engineer put the REDDI in the storage closet over a year ago and has been using a normal DI box. I talked him into using the REDDI again.
When dialing in your tone settings on the TH (or any pedal for that matter) I’m usually at home going through my practice amp with IEMs. Is this a complete waste of time as I’m not sure how that tone will sound in church through the FOH? Is there a better way to do this?
Also, the signal I get from the FOH into my IEMs may not be the same as what I’m sending the FOH (it might be altered by the engineer). What is common practice?
Also, the signal I get from the FOH into my IEMs may not be the same as what I’m sending the FOH (it might be altered by the engineer). What is common practice?
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I wouldn't call it a waste of time...rather imperfect solution.
Ideal solution is to dial it at a rehearsal with the respective PA system with the particular sound tech...
...which is a luxury unavailable to us most of the time.
Even if we are afforded this luxury, are you relying on the sound engineer for the right tone or yourself who is still on stage?
Yes.
Sure, I come with a suggestion depending on the particular genre/band (e.g. boosted low mids or boosted high mids or scooped mids etc.) and ask him whether it works for him in the mix. If he says ok, than my suggestion stays. If he asks for changes, I try to accomodate.
The above applies to the signal I send to FOH.
I generally try to have some room for changes made to my monitoring sound. Therefore, I prefer to send to FOH post-EQ signal from my pedal, and reserve the amp EQ for my monitoring...
That's a great point I struggle with as well. At home, through my little mixer and Sony headphones I get a great tone. When I plug into our IEM system (no amps) and through my P16 mixer onstage it sometimes sound thin and my first thought is boost the bass but that doesn't work well, or overdriven when it wasn't at home. I have Westone Pro UM 30's that were around $400 so I don't think its those (granted, my home Sony headphones have bigger drivers). I guess I could work with my sound gal but she's got enough going on so I just cope. The mix, however, comes out good so I guess I'm on the right track.....
The "thin" sound was the reason why I had been refusing going ampless for some time.
Then I discovered the magic of tactile transducers. Now I own and use BackBeat and Eich BassBoard. The IEM experience with and without them is night and day...
I am considering Eich Drumchair as well...
Great question! As Zybsek has said, the ideal is to have the time and a sound tech enthusiastic enough for you to dial in your tone with them, but this is sadly rarely the case. However, as a sound tech volunteer myself for my local church I know that it can help to have to have a signal input to the desk that has a bit of a head start towards a better tone, although you do need to be careful not to be making too drastic changes. Having AGS on the TH helps here straight off the bat, because its HPF & LPF help to reign in the subs a bit as well as reduce unwanted fret clank and string noise. As for EQ, boosting low-mids a bit can add some heft without adding too much rumble which might otherwise bother some members of the congregation. You can work with your sound tech on this one a bit if needed by asking how the tone sounds to them; too much mids and it might sound thin to them.
In terms of what you safely can dial in at home, dial in treble and overdrive to your own personal taste as to what sounds good in your ears. The treble isn't really that noticable through FoH, especially in a busy mix, so you've got some freedom to tweak to what sounds good to you. Similarly for the overdrive, if you just want to add some grit/hair for what sounds good in your ears, go for it; it's not until you get into full-on overdrive/distortion that you can really notice it through FoH, and even then, subtle overdrive isn't that noticable in a busy mix.
That said though, don't forget that since your bandmates are using IEMs too (I assume), it can be quite useful dialling in a good tone through your IEMs at home; if you have an aux-in or something on your amp then you can get an idea of how your tone sits in an IEM mix. If you get it sitting in the mix better, then you're helping your bandmates out in a practical way by strengthening that rhythmic and harmonic foundation you're providing for them. And if it sounds better to you, then you'll enjoy it more and so probably play better too even though the tone itself may not be noticably different through FoH. That's the main reason I love my TH, it helps add warmth and saturation to what I hear in my IEMs so I stop obsessing so much about how thin my bass sounds in my ears compared to my amp at home, and instead focus more on locking in with the groove like I should be!
The main thing NOT to do is to crank the bass dial, which is my pet peeve as a sound tech; that can potentially turn your FoH tone to mud, or even as is the case with our church building, literally rumbling the rafters, and there's little the sound tech can do to fix that without absolutely gutting the tone. So basically, be sparing with the bass EQ knob and you can't go too far wrong
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Well, my reason for trying out the Tone Hammer EQ and AGS is so that I can get a good "amp sound" through the FOH. My sound guy/engineer would like me to dial in a lot more grind so that I cut through the mix more in the auditorium. The mix in my IEMs sound great, so I don't really want more grind for me as it would be distracting. Hopefully the HPF/LPF that the AGS simulates will be the answer and will make a difference.
Years ago our church had a Buttkicker platform that the bass player would stand on. It helped a little but wasn't worth it imo. This was over 10 years ago though and long before Cab sims and all the other tech that has made DI sound better through IEMs only. With that said, I am very happy with my tone in my IEMs KZ S10pro (just $50).
My engineer messaged to tell me that I have been getting a post EQ/processed mix from the FOH for my IEMs. He said he could switch me to a pre-processed tone. This could be the answer. Its possible he has been making my mix more grindy/overdriven to sound better in the auditorium. Then I dial that back on the TH and my other pedals because my mix sounds to thin and grindy.
Yes, the LPF may help in that it helps take the edge off what you hear through your IEMs. However you're always going to be able to hear much more high-end detail in IEMs than you'll get through FoH, so to some degree you'll have to sacrifice your IEM mix a bit to get enough grind coming through FoH unless your sound tech is able to separately EQ your IEM mix to compensate.
If you haven't already, experiment with running your drive pedals though the TH, especially if you're using AGS with low-gain to get that "pushed amp" sound. Sadly the TH doesn't sound great with high gain IMO, but it does edge-of-breakup like nothing else I've tried (although I haven't tried a real tube DI like a Noble). So hopefully that helps give you that "amp sound" you're looking for.
When I got home I took some of your suggestions on TH settings and really loved the tone I was getting. I can pretty much nail an SVT rig sound, scooped or overdriven.
I ordered a Tone Hammer DI pedal today as I have enjoyed my Tone Hammer 500 but was looking for good tone when using IEMs without taking the amp head. I saw several videos of people recommending this pedal for playing in worship services, so I thought I would give it a try.
I ran across this video where the bassist said he always used the THDI with the TLC compressor together as a unit.
I assume he was using the compressor before the THDI to keep the peaks from pulling different tones from the THDI since it is reactive. I saw in the comments that others might put the compressor after the THDI. I have dedicated DI pedals so I could put the compressor on either side of the THDI and use a different DI as the final output to FoH.
I have seen in this thread that people mention the compressor before the THDI. I was curious to other reasons why you use a compressor with the THDI and if anyone tried using the compressor after the THDI (or maybe one compressor on each side). I figure over time you wind up with a collection of pedals and some times you just try rearranging things for fun and see what happens.
I ran across this video where the bassist said he always used the THDI with the TLC compressor together as a unit.
I assume he was using the compressor before the THDI to keep the peaks from pulling different tones from the THDI since it is reactive. I saw in the comments that others might put the compressor after the THDI. I have dedicated DI pedals so I could put the compressor on either side of the THDI and use a different DI as the final output to FoH.
I have seen in this thread that people mention the compressor before the THDI. I was curious to other reasons why you use a compressor with the THDI and if anyone tried using the compressor after the THDI (or maybe one compressor on each side). I figure over time you wind up with a collection of pedals and some times you just try rearranging things for fun and see what happens.
Al Kraft
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I ordered a Tone Hammer DI pedal today as I have enjoyed my Tone Hammer 500 but was looking for good tone when using IEMs without taking the amp head. I saw several videos of people recommending this pedal for playing in worship services, so I thought I would give it a try.
I ran across this video where the bassist said he always used the THDI with the TLC compressor together as a unit.
I assume he was using the compressor before the THDI to keep the peaks from pulling different tones from the THDI since it is reactive. I saw in the comments that others might put the compressor after the THDI. I have dedicated DI pedals so I could put the compressor on either side of the THDI and use a different DI as the final output to FoH.
I have seen in this thread that people mention the compressor before the THDI. I was curious to other reasons why you use a compressor with the THDI and if anyone tried using the compressor after the THDI (or maybe one compressor on each side). I figure over time you wind up with a collection of pedals and some times you just try rearranging things for fun and see what happens.
I use the compressor before the THDI for one reason, I often use the DI out from the TH to send my signal to the main mixing desk. I like having everything that is "part of my sound" (and I'm a clean player) included in that DI signal. If you use a lot distortion from the THDI controls (AGS on) you may like the compressor better after it...there is really no right or wrong answer here IMO.
OK so my THDI came in today and it has been fun playing with it. I am toying with the idea for going for a minimalist approach and just taking the THDI instead of my pedal board to rehearsal but want to hedge my bets in case phantom power is not available. The Aquilar PSU-2 is hard to find at the moment. What other power supply would work with the THDI? I would be using it with standard US 120 power.
Anything that can deliver 18V with at least 300ma (IIRC) with the correct plug - i.e. most any 18V power supply for pedals. Personally, I would just bring a pair of 9V batteries as a backup if you think phantom is probable but not guaranteed.
Enjoy your new Tone Hammer!
According to the Tone Hammer manual, the current draw is only 7mA; see http://www.aguilaramp.com/wp-content/uploads/manual-tone-hammer-v1.2.pdf
I use the 18V output of my Cioks DC5. Since the current draw is so low I imagine you would be able to use a voltage doubler on a 9V output if you don’t happen to have any 18V outputs. (Haven’t tried that myself though.)
