Dude, you are so punk rock. Keep on keepin' on for all us sinners! Some of the best shows I've ever been to have also been the worst sounding; underpowered, clipping PA's on folding chairs at local VFW halls, etc. Tone hardly translates into a good performance, esp. for punk/hardcore/emo/etc! When you get the cash, you could pickup something that plays better (I've been playing for 10 years, and am complete smitted with a $200 Squier VM P bass), just so you can play more comfortably, but, you are right, TONE is not the elusive, holy-grail of great music we all make it out to be sometimes!
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Tone. Really that important?
- Thread starter Vynns
- Start date
I'll throw in my two cents.
Tone is important to me in that it motivates my creative juices. If I hear a pleasing tone I feel I am more creative - or conversely, if my tone is pathetic it tends to kill my enjoyment of playing.
Having said that , I have played many many gigs with my bass virtually inaudible, or due to the acoustics of the room or whatever the tone was not very motivating, but still played well, and gave it my best, so, I guess what I am saying that at least in live playing with a band, there is a broad spectrum of tone that I can live with and not get my creativity killed.
As to whether tone is very important to listeners - only to other bass players or musicians.
Tone is important to me in that it motivates my creative juices. If I hear a pleasing tone I feel I am more creative - or conversely, if my tone is pathetic it tends to kill my enjoyment of playing.
Having said that , I have played many many gigs with my bass virtually inaudible, or due to the acoustics of the room or whatever the tone was not very motivating, but still played well, and gave it my best, so, I guess what I am saying that at least in live playing with a band, there is a broad spectrum of tone that I can live with and not get my creativity killed.
As to whether tone is very important to listeners - only to other bass players or musicians.
Hey now, Yamaha makes some really nice basses. Even their low end old RBX basses can be modified to sound just beautiful.
Don't let anyone make you feel ashamed of coming out of the closet as a proud Yamaha owner
As far as tone. I have these sounds in my head (not voices) as far as what I want the bass to sound like on certain songs, and I just go tweaking things until I find what I need to achieve the physical manifestation of that sound.
These things you mention - energy, atmosphere, fun - they matter as well, not only live, but in the studio too. But music is primarily about sounds. I can't see how I can place tone as secondary, ever.
Yes and no,....
Ive been to some that the output is just so aweful it makes u want to run,... tho on the 'bad sound' part, a few bands I have seen have basically handled it well, like turned down when needed or just give their all and it made for awesome show... it is in the hands though,... me playing bass now compared to me playing bass a year ago,... I know im my own worst critic but goddamn a year ago I can FEEL how much ive progressed... I cringe for anyone who heard me last year haha
so long as your instrument is playable and sounds nice then I think that 'the perfect tone' doesn't always need to come into the equation,... but on that part ive fallen in love with the tone of my K5 and going back to the yamaha just doesn't feel right anymore!!!
This is the reason why I have so many different basses (and other instruments as well). If I hear a rough recording of a song, and I need to think of a bass part, I'll think "Hmm. This would sound good with a Stingray with a bit of Ampeg grind" or "This one definitely needs that p-bass thump".
For playing out, I take instruments that cut through the guitars well, and are not so expensive that if a mic stand falls on it, or it gets stolen, that I am out a major investment.
If you think us basses are bad, you ought read some thread on some guitar forums. There biggest corksniffers of all are some guitarists.
I go to the big Dallas guitar show every year, and it never ceases to amaze me what some people will pay, just because of the perceived tone quality.
For playing out, I take instruments that cut through the guitars well, and are not so expensive that if a mic stand falls on it, or it gets stolen, that I am out a major investment.
If you think us basses are bad, you ought read some thread on some guitar forums. There biggest corksniffers of all are some guitarists.
I go to the big Dallas guitar show every year, and it never ceases to amaze me what some people will pay, just because of the perceived tone quality.
I would think that a more expensive bass will have better workmanship associated to it... like properly levelled frets, really straight neck (some basses even with truss rod adjustment you can't get a straight neck because of flaws in the planing and cutting), excellent intonation, good quality electronics etc etc...
all these factors help make you more comfortable in playing and definitely helps your sound.
all these factors help make you more comfortable in playing and definitely helps your sound.
I started with a cort action bass and a trace elliot 130 watt 15" speaker combo. At the time I couldn't understand why anything could sound much better than that. Then I bought a soundgear 840. I started understanding that basses could sound more complex. Then I got my Rickenbacker from 74. Then I learned what mojo means. After buying my Trace Quatra valve and swr goliath, I learned what a powerfull good amp can do. Then I bought my tokai p which I later exchanged for a 82 tokai J. Then I learned why good jazzes and p's are so popular. And then I bought my Markbass Stack.
As some have said before, I learned a lot about tone by trying new stuff. I do think a lot comes from good technique. But a good p, with a good amp, can make one open note sound killer. Allthough if the player can not do more then that, he's very limited. To my experience technique and musicality are the most important. But tone is allso important. Otherwise the only reason why anybody would play something else then a squier or some other cheap bass would be snobism or image. And I don't believe that.
I now also have a Yamaha bbga. Although it is a mighty fine bass for the money. It has a les deep growly beefy sound then my tokai Jazz. A really good bass has a more complex sound. It's in sonic details that are often only appreciated buy musicians or people with good ears. But if the mix is right, these details can become important.
All in imo offcourse, but believe you can not say it's all in the fingers. It's just not that simple, nothing is. It's not this or that, it's both. Technique and tone.
As some have said before, I learned a lot about tone by trying new stuff. I do think a lot comes from good technique. But a good p, with a good amp, can make one open note sound killer. Allthough if the player can not do more then that, he's very limited. To my experience technique and musicality are the most important. But tone is allso important. Otherwise the only reason why anybody would play something else then a squier or some other cheap bass would be snobism or image. And I don't believe that.
I now also have a Yamaha bbga. Although it is a mighty fine bass for the money. It has a les deep growly beefy sound then my tokai Jazz. A really good bass has a more complex sound. It's in sonic details that are often only appreciated buy musicians or people with good ears. But if the mix is right, these details can become important.
All in imo offcourse, but believe you can not say it's all in the fingers. It's just not that simple, nothing is. It's not this or that, it's both. Technique and tone.
"Tone" is a moving target that can be interpreted a number of ways. First of all, I don't think high quality instruments and good tone necessarily go hand in hand. It's reasonable to want an instrument that plays well and doesn't force you to work harder than necessary to get the notes out. Beyond that, every bassist has his or her own idea of what qualifies as good tone, but what you hear in the store or without accompaniment is only a starting point. In a live situation, good tone is more about finding your place in the mix than forcing your idea of perfect tone into it, and it can be different depending upon a number of factors that include room acoustics, proper EQ of everything else, etc. To that end, whatever gets you through the gig is fine as long as you do what you can to respect the aural space of other musicians. Your audience will appreciate it even if they aren't really aware of it.
Tone is the most important element of what we, as bassists do -- whether you're playing an upright in an orchestra or a jazz setting, or playing electric in your punk trio in the garage.
There is not one single tone that is applicable to all contexts, but a player should know how to generate "good" tone, and then move on from that basis.
When I first started taking bass lessons, I remember the very first exercises my teacher had me do were "tone" exercises. I was made to play the open strings, and he wanted me to learn how the finger is supposed to "roll off" the string, rather than "pluck" it. This was in order to learn how to make a nice, round, pleasing sound.
Do I use that technique for everything I do now? No. I've done everything; with a pick, slapping, slamming the fingerboard with open hands and fists, throwing the bass at my amp and kicking it, beating on the body to make the strings ring . . . you name it.
But the point is, I know how to get different tones out of the instrument.
There is not one single tone that is applicable to all contexts, but a player should know how to generate "good" tone, and then move on from that basis.
When I first started taking bass lessons, I remember the very first exercises my teacher had me do were "tone" exercises. I was made to play the open strings, and he wanted me to learn how the finger is supposed to "roll off" the string, rather than "pluck" it. This was in order to learn how to make a nice, round, pleasing sound.
Do I use that technique for everything I do now? No. I've done everything; with a pick, slapping, slamming the fingerboard with open hands and fists, throwing the bass at my amp and kicking it, beating on the body to make the strings ring . . . you name it.
But the point is, I know how to get different tones out of the instrument.
They key regarding tone "for me" evolves around "Good Enough".
A balancing act between Good Enough to fit the music, and Good Enough to pacify my own needs for feedback and what I need to hear in my head.
Live the vast majority of people really don't give a damn, and most have no clue and couldn't care either way. If it sounds "Good Enough" they're happy. If you present the music "Good Enough" they accept it and they're happy.
I live in a world of "Good Enough" and it works for me.
A balancing act between Good Enough to fit the music, and Good Enough to pacify my own needs for feedback and what I need to hear in my head.
Live the vast majority of people really don't give a damn, and most have no clue and couldn't care either way. If it sounds "Good Enough" they're happy. If you present the music "Good Enough" they accept it and they're happy.
I live in a world of "Good Enough" and it works for me.
dude, it depends on your goal of playing music.
if your goal is playing music for your pleasure, gear doesn't matter.
you hear it for yourself. and if you happy with it, go with it.
but, if you play music to entertain others, you should give the audience the best.
if your goal is playing music for your pleasure, gear doesn't matter.
you hear it for yourself. and if you happy with it, go with it.
but, if you play music to entertain others, you should give the audience the best.
+1 Thanks for saving me a lot of typing.
There's two sides to the equation, player and listener.
The listener needs to hear the bass and it needs to be distinct. In most cases, that responsibility falls on the sound person.
The player needs to be inspired to play his best. That's where tone comes in for the player. Along with the color of your bass, what you had to eat, how you're being treated, your love life, etc.
Whatever is important to you, will impact how you play and sound.
And I think for a lot of us, tone is important.
LeonD
Second that.... I was told that I had good tone one night by a blues vocalist that I really respected in Austin. I was playing my $350 fretless MTD through a less desired amp, not even mine, and he really liked my tone. The guitar player in the band that knew him very well went on to explain that he meant that the tone was more than the amp/bass. He was talking about my touch feel etc..... Yeah having the right gear is important. That is what inspires YOU to play better. It is all in your head. Play what sounds right to you and the right notes will follow.
Tone is that important !
Good tone is the sum of all parts.
Jaco had a "tone"
Jamerson had a "tone.
Marcus has a "tone"
Geddy has a "tone"
Pino has a "tone"
Timmy C. has a "tone"
The amount of money you spend on equipment, does not equal tone?
How many "chops" you have does not equal tone?
Good tone will set you apart for the "average" player.
Tone isn't everything. You could have the best tone in the world, yet be a crap bassist. You could have a really bad tone, but be a good bassist - I'm pretty sure the audience would rather have the second bassist over the first. I've stopped looking for this "tone" now. Everything I play, sounds like me and my tone. I don't know if it's a great tone but it sound great to me.
I like buying secondhand basses and getting a bargain, even if they're a bit scratched, they can sound just as good as any "boutique" bass - as long as you buy the right one.
I'm happy with my little rig, I own 2 basses ATM and am getting one more and then stopping. I've had a similar tone for years that I've liked and getting more and more gear won't change that. Good tone does not set you apart from the avaerage player. It just demonstrates the fact that you know hold to set-up an amp and bass.
Good playing is what set's you apart from the average player. The funk is in the fingers.
I like buying secondhand basses and getting a bargain, even if they're a bit scratched, they can sound just as good as any "boutique" bass - as long as you buy the right one.
I'm happy with my little rig, I own 2 basses ATM and am getting one more and then stopping. I've had a similar tone for years that I've liked and getting more and more gear won't change that. Good tone does not set you apart from the avaerage player. It just demonstrates the fact that you know hold to set-up an amp and bass.
Good playing is what set's you apart from the average player. The funk is in the fingers.
What works for you doesn't necessarily work for others. Also, there's other styles besides rock that get played live that require different sounds.
