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Tone. Really that important?

#41
Think about all the things in music that can be fake:

Pitch with Antares Autotune.
Rhythm with a drum machine.
Both with a sequencer.

What do you have as a musician that nobody else has? Your own personal approach to the instrument's sound. What is it that you are feeding off when you play? It's the sound of the instrument beneath your hands.

So tone is very important to you as a player. I didn't used to think this either, but recently I started a process of gradually upgrading my amplifier stable to where I have a good-sounding amp all the time. And I've taken to changing my strings more often than I ordinarily would. Because if I'm going to do this, I need to be enjoying the sound of it or there's no point.
 
#44
Would you want a bass playing in a metal band sound like The Beatles? No... so Tone is very important. But you're forgetting tone is very universal. Such as, tone means how your bass sounds, but your tone is also what kind of amp you're using, effects, and which pickup in the bass you're using. Oh and the kind of bass of course ;)
 
#46
Vynns said:
Evenin' all,

I have been thinking lately about something, which is kinda like this thread: http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=456475&

A lot of people here and elsewhere in the music scene are completely obsessed with that elusive quality that is "tone". However, does tone really matter? I am talking about performing and live shows, not studio and recording of course, where tone would indeed be a big factor.

See, I'm in a place in my musical career where I have never recorded in a studio and it's not in my immediate future. Also, I have no money. That counts. Anyhoo, my gear is cryworthy: I own a Yamaha "cheapass bass" I think the term is, and I do not have my own amp. It sounds like... I don't know. When I play it, I'm not missing anything in my sound or whatever. It's not great, but good enough, know what I mean?

But in spite of that, I've done quite a few shows as a guitarist, and about 3 or 4 since I became a bassist, all with crappy gear, and all with complete conviction and energy. I think what people take away from a gig is the energy, the atmosphere and the fun they had, not what tone the bass or the guitar has, especially non musicians. Doesn't it, when doing shows, all come down to that? The songs you've written, the message, the energy you're trying to get across to the audience?

Now, what I'm wondering, is if a more highend bass or even a midrange "workhorse" kinda bass, like a MIM jazz for example would really be so much better? I am comfortable playing my agathis body, held-together-by-ducttape-and-chewing-gum, even-hobos-make-fun-of-me, cheapass Yamaha. And if I can "make it" with this thing, well, that would be a thing of pure punkrock poetry methinks. Or am I missing out on something? Am I making this harder for me than it should be? Am I just dodging the "a more expensive bass is automatically better" pitfall, or am I being a poor naive sap who is denying himself the pleasure of playing a $3000,- custom made bass?

And that's another thing. I don't know how you highend bass people do it. If I had an Alembic or whatever, I would be afraid to play it or scratch it. With an $80,- beauty, I save myself the worry of "omg, hope nuttin' happens to my bass". An instrument is a tool to create music, not a lifelong friend or mortgageloan investment.

Any thoughts?
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Interesting post. My last gig was with a Yamaha RBX260, and I think it is the most inexpensive bass in the Yamaha lineup. I used it on this occasion as a "travel bass" as I was travelling abroad. The acoustics of the gig were horrific with a capital "H". Nevertheless the people enjoyed us, despite it all. Did I get "my" sound? Absolutely not, but then again, that room was never going to deliver anything that approximated good sound. Could I use this inexpensive bass for the rest of my life if I had no other? Sure. Would I want to? No.

I will say that I hold my basses dear, and one in particular is my most prized possession. It is a tool, but even people can connect with tools. You may not know about antique tool collections, but they exist, there is a market for them, and those who like tools certainly and highly regard/prize certain items. I will also say that my bass isn't my lifelong friend, as technically, I haven't owned it all my life, though for what amounts to the REST of my life, I hope to have it and play it at every gig for as long as I live. Whether you call that a "lifelong friend" and if I seem pollyanna-ish for that, I'm sorry to say that I don't really care. I don't regard my main bass as a mortgage investment simply as it's value is not in money, or cannot be fully recouped by money. Any amount.

That said, I will continue to play this favorite bass as much as I can (like at my gig tonight) and do everything I can to keep it from getting dinged, nicked, etc... but to also use it. I know a bass as a "museum piece" which is for display purposes only and which is not played will not remain playable in the years to come.

Does tone matter? Yes and no. To the audience, generally not- most don't hone in on the bass "tone" and then come up to me after the gig and tell me "nice bass tone". That's fine. But if I have the luxury of choosing which instrument to use, or having a couple to switch back and forth between gigs, then I like having that option. Sometimes it is an option, and sometimes, due to some pragmatic consideration, aka travel, it's not.

There is a balance. It's not "either you care about tone or don't." There has to be a certain pragmatism as a performing musician, that quest for tone cannot rule the day above and beyond all other considerations. But, it good to care about your sound as making what you do better, just as people are concerned about the art of putting on a good show/performance, good songwriting, etc... It's not academic or over-reaching to care about tone, as it shows you care about the craft of not only making music, but of being a bass player. And caring about tone also doesn't have to be about moving towards an Alembic and boutique amp as your ideal tone fix. I don't buy such categorizations or gross generalizations. You can care about tone when you're using lower end equipment as well, because regardless of money, you can care about something you enjoy and want to do it well/good enough/better. Take your pick.

I'm not "obsessed" about tone, as I already have the sounds I want from the gear that I have. I'm lucky that way. However, I also know that it's not going to completely ruin my gig if I couldn't play through my bass, and through my amp, and in an acoustical environment that meets my "approval." ...I call this "professionalism"...

Best to you.
 
#47
Stan_da_man said:
Notice all the people saying tone is important have expensive bass gear and are trying to justify their purchases. XD

Being a good player will set you apart from the average player, not tone.
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As it has been stated before, tone is the sum of all parts. A good player will sound better on a better bass, while the bad player will sound worse on the same bass. The bass is the filter (that allows certain things to pass through), not the light, yet both are important
 
#48
of course tone is important. Ever try to play gospel using a typical death metal tone? How about neo soul with a pbass with flats with bass and treble cut and mids all the way boosted? The audience might not recogniz what you're doing but they'll know something isnt right and that will affect their response at the show.

The right tone for the right time and things sound right. And in response to a prior poster, I don't have any high end gear but realiz that my cheapo bass has it's limits and doesn't work everywhere. I deal with it but know things could be better.

And for those of us who play jazz there's no pa most times. Fingers bass amp and then the audiences ears. It matters what gets put in that signal chain because there's no pro engineer to fix it in the mix.
 
#54
I think a soild good tone (thats not to intrusive so to speak) is needed in a working situation.

Of course a great bass player can pick up a cheap bass and sound good.

For that note did I even need to write that. :rolleyes::cool:

I think you can get a great tone out of a lot of inexpensive instruments.

Mine go from a Modulus Q series to Mexi Jazz (thats a bit modded).

There are some foundation basic foundations to an instrument that are needed be there to produce the correct frequency. It is what it is.

95% of pop music you could do fine on a $300 Mexi Fender (if not more than 95%).


If your gigs are complaining and neither are you band mates then your fine...Really.
 
#56
Stan_da_man said:
Notice all the people saying tone is important have expensive bass gear and are trying to justify their purchases. XD

Being a good player will set you apart from the average player, not tone.
Click to expand...

People listen to music to hear sounds. If they're crummy sounds the music won't be enjoyable. Even the player won't get as much out of it.

Tone isn't all from gear. Your fingers make the sounds come out of the instrument. But it's got to be better than a junk bass with a 30-watt amp or no one will be able to tell.
 
#57
Lots of great posts about the player and technique being most important, no need for expensive gear, etc. But tone matters a great deal to me, and not just my sound, but the sound of the whole band.

And for the whole band's sound, let's face it, decent gear does matter. In the first band I joined when I returned to playing a few years ago, I had decent gear, and the guitarists played U.S. Fenders through good tube amps. Guess what? We sounded much better than other bands with sub-par gear, even when their playing was decent. It was like the difference between a boom box and a good hi-fi system.

In my last band, one of the guitarists didn't have a good amp, so I let him use mine after a few gigs, and it made a huge difference. All of a sudden, we could hear his parts clearly, and his creative use of effects had a greater impact on our overall sound.

And I do think audiences respond more to a band with great sound, though they may not be able to articulate why.
 
#58
Greyvagabond said:
Dude, you are so punk rock. Keep on keepin' on for all us sinners! Some of the best shows I've ever been to have also been the worst sounding; underpowered, clipping PA's on folding chairs at local VFW halls, etc. Tone hardly translates into a good performance, esp. for punk/hardcore/emo/etc! When you get the cash, you could pickup something that plays better (I've been playing for 10 years, and am complete smitted with a $200 Squier VM P bass), just so you can play more comfortably, but, you are right, TONE is not the elusive, holy-grail of great music we all make it out to be sometimes!
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Don't wanna agitate the whole what is punk rock thing too much. But my understanding was that it's philosophy was that anyone can play music, and if they want to should. But you shouldn't feel you should stick to 3 powerchords and whatever, it's just that if your not good at playing you should still go for it.

The worst thing that's happened, is people seem to not care at all, or even worse go out of their way to sound crap. All cos they they think it's punk. At least it's not as bad as the whole fashion thing, which is just completely utterly stupid, alot of punk scenes haven't evolved at all.

I've been really put off alot of punk, but still listen to some from time to time. Still listen to plenty of hardcore though, although the same thing seems to be happening to hardcore as happened to punk which is depressing.

I agree with you though about the sound not being the major factor behind a goods show, but I've majorly misjudged alot of bands due to naff sound. Watched plenty of bands thinking they sucked, only to hear them with a good setup and realise how awesome they were.

On a personal level I find it quite hard to get into music if I can't hear myself and my band properly, so I feel tones pretty important. Nut people shouldn't think it's the be all and end all if they're still learning to use equipment like they want to, and don't have great amps and stuff. Alot of bands seem to have great equipment and sound crap though, so I really think that knowing what your doing, can have a much larger effect then having what you need.
 
#60
mongo2 said:
Ever watch American Idol? :D
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Interesting example, actually.

The bass player on AI (Ricky Minor - a spectacular player) needs to play a very wide variety of music on that show. His tone will vary from song to song depending on what's needed for the music. Whether it's a mid-scooped pop or a low end reggae thump, it's perfect. Tone is definitely important.

A true story...
One of the guitar players I'm currently playing with was using a cheap Fender solid state amp for quite a while. His sound was extremely brittle and unfocused. At the urging of the rest of the band, we had him try a Fender Twin one night at rehearsal - it made a world of difference for the whole band. His sound was clear and focused (even with heavy overdrive), and suddenly EVERYONE in the band could be heard better and wasn't struggling to compete with the harshness of his previous amp. His playing skills hadn't changed at all (he's a decent player), but a single piece of good gear helped the entire mix.

When I sound good, and the rest of my band sounds good, we play better, and that translates to the audience - whether they can hear the subtleties of even-order harmonics or not. As others have said, good gear is part of the package that delivers good tone.

Yes, tone is important.
 

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