Tone. Really that important?

[Visirale]

Also depends a lot on your philosophy of tone. I like to just be another color in an aural soundscape. Little things affect your tone in huge ways! Knowing how every little thing you control contributes to the end product gives you a lot more colors to work with.

I have probably spent way too much money on my gear, but when I play I have a tone I love, and that can boost my confidence to the next level... Of course there are people who can be just as confident playing through a $200 rig as a $20,000 rig... But I benefit from having a good tone to work with.

Also, in a band context, it doesn't really matter if you have the amazing basses and amazing amps if your guitarist's tone is mud city or the singer is flat or the drums are tuned bad... I operate best with people who have the same relentless pursuit for great tone that I have. And then we can create some truly beautiful sounds. I think you can say just as much with your tone and control over it as with the notes you play...

 

[fretlessman71]

I certianly agree on both pioints. This also means that a good bass in the hands of a good player sounds that much better. If you can make a cheap bass sound good, why would you settle for a cheap bass?

Agreed. But my guess is that the OP can barely afford what he has and is more than making do.

Something else worth noting: If you KNOW the sound you're looking for, and a $120 bass can cut the mustard just fine for what you want, isn't it Game Over at that point?

 

[KayCee]

Something else worth noting: If you KNOW the sound you're looking for, and a $120 bass can cut the mustard just fine for what you want, isn't it Game Over at that point?

I envy anyone in that position.

 

[EricF]

Agreed. But my guess is that the OP can barely afford what he has and is more than making do.

People will justify anything. I'm as guilty as anyone of that.

Something else worth noting: If you KNOW the sound you're looking for, and a $120 bass can cut the mustard just fine for what you want, isn't it Game Over at that point?

Maybe...but what fun is that??

 

[fretlessman71]

Maybe...but what fun is that??

Can't argue with you there. I GAS as much as anyone else around here.

 

[doc540]

I just thought I gave live tone appropriate intention.

Then I heard Trip Wamsly live.

From that moment I realized how essential it is.

re: "The $120 bass".
I'v had experience with them and I own one now. They sound like suck when compared to a more expensive, better-sounding bass.

 

[quasiz_bassist]

Something else worth noting: If you KNOW the sound you're looking for, and a $120 bass can cut the mustard just fine for what you want, isn't it Game Over at that point?

Yeah if thats what your pursuing than go for it...in the end, if it sounds good, than you made it.

 

[Sammy_L_D]

That Mel Bay quote is great.

If you're unhappy with your tone, examine your technique. If you've never taken lessons with a reputable individual before, or if you've just tried emulating what you've seen in DVDs, etc., do it.

The instrument will make a difference ONLY after a player has the ability to manipulate an instrument into the sound he or she is looking for.

Being able to play with discipline and good technique goes a long way to molding the sound you might be looking for.

As an aside, in the grand scheme of things, unless you're a solo musician (acoustic guitarist for instance), or a vocalist or something, most people really don't care how everything sounds, except for other musicians (specifically with bass, other bassists).

And even in regards to solo players/vocalists, etc., many people probably wouldn't notice in a live setting, or even care.

 

[hentor]

People listen to music to hear sounds. If they're crummy sounds the music won't be enjoyable. Even the player won't get as much out of it.

Tone isn't all from gear. Your fingers make the sounds come out of the instrument. But it's got to be better than a junk bass with a 30-watt amp or no one will be able to tell.

I think we have it pretty much covered that your hands and technique are prime factors in getting the tone. The moral of the story is that if it sounds good to you, then you will enjoy playing and in the end, do a better job of playing for yourself, recording or performing live.

Ummm....I do take issue with the 30-watt amp comment. Some of the best tones on classic recordings come from a 25 or 30 watt amp. The stripped down 60's Ampeg B-15 that I got from a local pawnshop looks like heck but sounds like Jamerson and McCartney when played, it's only 30 watts but sounds amazing, the engineers that have offered me cash on the spot after mic'ing it up agree. For live work, yes it is underpowered and weak, but I usually go straight into the PA using a DI or my Trace Elliot valve preamp and use my onstage amp for monitoring if I have the luxury, otherwise I rely on the live engineer to provide me a monitor mix. If I'm doing a seated gig, I usually bring my own throne with a seat kicker/butt shaker for added low end oomph.

Maybe it's just me but when I hear my live recordings played back, even though I'm relying on the engineer for my tone, I still sound like "me".

Boutique basses simply give folks more options to assist them in getting the tone from what they want to hear in their heads to what they actually get to hear. I've played a number of basses over my career from a $200 Yamaha RBX250 to my lamented Rickenbacker 4003 and always come back to my Fender Highway One P as it gives me what I need to make what I want to hear a reality. If I need a higher fidelity sound with a little more clarity and finesse, I switch to my Geddy Lee J with outboard Sadowsky Preamp.

You just have to do your research and find out what works for you. It may be the $80 yamaha, it may be that $8000 Fodera...but whatever you do, if and when you find it play it with heart and soul.

 

[Hawkeye]

1. In a live situation, so many engineers get the bass sound wrong, that "tone" probably doesn't matter as much at a gig. It's more about being heard. Usually the bass is an overblown, too loud, ill-defined, non-pitch accurate kind of a big sea of bass mud that is further trampled into inarticulation by the pounding of the gigantic booms of the kick drum. What you hear on stage most likely is not what the audience is hearing. Add one point for "cheap bass".

2. The right tone can be inspiring. Guys are right to discuss playing technique as a major factor in tone, but some just go way overboard with their "the tone is in your hands" rhetoric. There are some basses that I have played myriad ways only to give up on them because I didn't like their sound, no matter how (or where on the bass) I played or what settings I used. Deduct one point for "cheap bass".

Your hands supply the input and that's all. The bass supplies the output as influenced by the way you play.

Depending on the bass, the right input (your playing style) will be rewarded with the right output (tone) you want to hear.

When you can feel the mojo and the bass feels at one with your hands, and "speaks" to you with its sound ("yeah baby, give it to me, that's what I want").

That's tone.

 

[TimWinter]

Interesting example, actually.


A true story...
One of the guitar players I'm currently playing with was using a cheap Fender solid state amp for quite a while. His sound was extremely brittle and unfocused.
Yes, tone is important.

Funny how Johnny Greenwood gets all the tone he wants from that "cheap Fender solid state amp". It just goes to show one that it all depends what you are going for and what inspires one to play their best.

 

[bassmanjones]

I think people are disillusioned when they say tone is all in the hands. It isn't. Your hands, your playing style and technique are factors that contribute to the final product. Granted, they are the primary factors, but they are factors none the less.

"Put a cheap bass in the hands of a great musician and they'll make it sound great" is something that keeps getting repeated. Most people consider Victor Wooten a great musician (whether or not you like the type of music or style) and I've heard Vic play a crappy bass on two occassions. Once at a concert where he was running through FOH and once two feet away from him when he was trying out Eden rigs and comparing to his signature Ampeg cabs in a Nashville music store. You know how he sounded on those cheapo basses? Like ass! Now, he was playing his signature licks and had his style because you can never remove that. He was tearin it up on both occassions and flying all over the fingerboard and putting lesser bassists to shame, but you could barely hear what he was playing through all the fretboard clacking, dead spots on the neck, cheap crappy pickups that didn't get all his subtleties and other problems. Once he plugged his personal Fodera back in, it was all Vic again and he sounded like himself again.

Like people have said, basses are tools. If the level of work you're performing requires low level tools to get the job done (root note rock or three chord punk where the audience struggles to make out the bass nomatter what you're playing through) then there's nothing wrong with sticking with those tools. But to say that tone is unimportant is silly because it impacts the audience's feelings. To say that the player makes the tone and it's all in their hands is equally silly because that's simply not the case. Not everyone needs to go crazy over getting tone, but it should at least be a consideration and you should work with what you have and can affoard if you actually care about the music you're producing.

 

[fretlessman71]

Oftentimes knowing what you want and need from your tone go a long way in getting it.

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you'll find...

 

[savit260]

The tone people hear is coming from the FOH more often than not on my giggs.

Persnoaly, I know my 3 "work horse" P basses all sound damned good, so there will be no issues there.

That said, I still am happiest, and play best when I have a tone that I like on stage, even though that's not much of what the audience is hearing.

 

[Vynns]

Wow this thread exploded, tnx everyone.

Anyhoo, I think some of you may have misunderstood me: it's not that I don't care about tone at all, it has to be above a certain baseline, so to speak. If it sounds horrendous, it sounds horrendous. It's more that I think the importance and weight we place on tone is much too high, at least for live situations.

Having said that, you may be right. I must confess, I have never played high-end basses (or even workhorse category basses for that matter). So maybe I am missing something: There were some posters saying that you'd get inspired from a great instrument. I don't think I've ever experienced that, on either bass or guitar. So maybe I need to just shut up, get myself to a quality music store and try some of those "better" instruments to see if you're right, if I've been missing out on something.

And, of course, even though I'm quite happy with my bass at the moment, I'm not impervious to GAS. I've drooled over a lot of gear in my years as musician, so maybe my questioning the importance of tone stems from my frustration of never having had enough money to buy me a killer axe. But that's for psychologists to determine

I do think this one poster had a point when he said:

You have to rephrase that. Your question is more like: "Gear. Really that important?"

My answer would be no. It's all in the fingers. Your gear doesn't make you. And if it does, you're really far out. If you can be satisfied with less, that's probably the greatest thing on earth.

This may be true. Tone is still tone if it's made by the sh*ttiest gear. Thanks for pointing that out.

As things stand now, I'll just keep my stuff as it is until I feel the need to buy me another one. And I have money. But I will go and try to get a feel for basses, their "inspirational value" so to speak. See if I can convince myself. God my wallet is going to hate me.

So. Tnx. but by all means, keep the discussion going, it's interesting to hear what you have to say.

 

[Stan_da_man]

You're either jealous or naive in saying that statement

I can put hand on heart and say I will never want to own a Fodera or Sadowsky etc. I've played many basses that cost less and sound better.

 

[Fuzzbass]

Isn't this all a little too obvious, y'all?

If you're good, you're good. Instruments provide the means to convey the sound we have in our head.

+1000

Jaco wouldn't have the same tone on a P-bass as he would on a J-bass, but he would still be a genius.

 

[Jeramaya]

I think any inspired human would make music with whatever was in front of them, be it their voice, a drum, their hands making rhythms on their thighs, a circular saw, a crappy bass, an Alembic...

Most of the time, I write music not even plugged into an amp. Just playing my Alembic, which by the way I don't *purposefully* treat as though it were a priceless work of art, and hearing the clank of the cables on the fretboard is good enough for me. But, tone is the reason I don't usually wear ear plugs at gigs. I love to hear the sweet sounds all around me. They're part of what's inspiring about playing live. I love good tones (or a good stage that brings them out) like I love the colors on a cool painting. There's complexity in tone, richness. However, when you're on stage and there's nothing but feedback, you have to press on and forget about all of that.

 

[The Ethanator]

this is the way i see it:
if you have a really good (or picky) ear and it takes a $3000 bass to get the exact tone you want, buy it. but if youre happy with a squier and a 25 watt practice amp and dont see the need to go beyond that, more power to you

 

[kirkm24]

Wow, a post like this on a bass forum is like asking the Pope if he is Catholic. I think tone is important if you want to have a sound that is "your" sound. I think a lot of us on here are in a pursuit of our sound. It's no different than a guy looking for a new car or new golf clubs or whatever. Everyone has things that work the best for them.

I started on a Peavey Fury back in 1996 that I paid $60 for with case. In 1998, I bought a 95 American P-Bass but got awestruck by the fancy basses with active electronics. I went through Yamahas, MusicMan's, Fender J's with EMG's. They all sounded great for what they were but I never felt like they were "my" sound. Years later, I have made a 180 back to the beloved P bass and I feel right at home with it. After the honeymoon is over, if you still like your gear, you have probably arrived at your sound. For me, the P bass is it.

Another huge part of tone is playing style. I went through a pick phase, a slap-a-holic phase (wannabe) and now I am a finger style groove (want-a-be) player.

I have also come to the realization that investing a ton of money in great amps is actually not a large component of your live sound. If you run direct, your fingers and your bass are the most critical component of your live sound so I would always recommend focusing on that part first. A good amp won't do you wrong but if you don't use a mic, it is probably only going to be heard by you and your band mates. Always be mindful of FOH.

Just my tips for whatever their worth.