How do you get a good tone? How do you find it? How do you know how much treble bass and mids to use? How do these tones work together? Very vague, be opinionated.
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Tone, very vague
- Thread starter WorshipBassist
- Start date
- Sep 4, 2010
- 3,304
- 2,730
- Disclosures
- Endorsing: Martin Keith Guitars
I always start flat and adjust to whoever I'm playing with. I like to have a fat & aggressive yet clear tone with a lot of low/high mids.
Here's what I've found about bass tone from experience as a player and a sound engineer, in live and studio situations. I'll cover EQ in this post, I'll do compression next if anyone's interested. 
Subtle changes to your EQ can make a big difference, extreme settings are rarely a good thing.
Always listen before you look. Sometimes a setting that 'looks wrong' sounds great, and the audience are going to be listening to you, not staring at the knobs on your amp.
Fitting in with the rest of your band is more important than sounding great on your own. Once you and the guitarist(s) work this out, you're well on the way to becoming a good sounding band.
Distortion generally (but not always) requires more low end than clean.
Your amp and the PA will rarely produce the same tone when you play. Adjust accordingly.
A good sound in the house is more important than a good sound from your cab. Adjust (levels and EQ) accordingly.
Be nice to your sound engineer. It'll pay off.
Frequencies:
50Hz and below (Sub-Bass):
not much point in boosting here if you're on 4-string. Cuts here help to reduce woolliness and 'clean up' the sound.
50Hz-100Hz (Low Bass):
The kick drum often resides around here, so it's best not to have a boost in your sound that will end up clashing with it for sonic space. That said, boost here for a truly thunderous low B (if your cab can produce it).
100Hz-150Hz (Bass):
This is where you boost to get some serious thump. That bass that makes your chest vibrate at loud gigs, and makes all the motown players sound so fat? This is where it is. I rarely cut these frequencies, but YMMV.
175hz-300Hz (Low Mid):
IME a lot of passive basses spike a little here, so I often end up cutting. If you play a lot on the lower strings above the octave mark, cuts around here will really help the notes sing and not jump out horribly.
350Hz-750Hz (Mid):
A lot of overtones/harmonics sit around here on a bass guitar, my tone sounds a bit sour if I boost here, but again, YMMV.
800Hz-2kHz (High Mid):
This is where the clarity lies. Boost here for 'bite' and string rattle. Boosting here will help you 'cut through'. A careful boost somewhere in this range can make or break a distorted tone.
2.5kHz-5kHz (Treble):
Boost here for killer slap tones, but also hella string noise when moving your left hand about. Cut here to stop your distortion from walking all over the guitarists.
5kHz and up (Air):
Absolutely not needed for live work, most basses/cabs won't even put anything out in in this range anyway.
Hope that helps! As I said, all this information is entirely from my experience, so YMMV!
Joe
Subtle changes to your EQ can make a big difference, extreme settings are rarely a good thing.
Always listen before you look. Sometimes a setting that 'looks wrong' sounds great, and the audience are going to be listening to you, not staring at the knobs on your amp.
Fitting in with the rest of your band is more important than sounding great on your own. Once you and the guitarist(s) work this out, you're well on the way to becoming a good sounding band.
Distortion generally (but not always) requires more low end than clean.
Your amp and the PA will rarely produce the same tone when you play. Adjust accordingly.
A good sound in the house is more important than a good sound from your cab. Adjust (levels and EQ) accordingly.
Be nice to your sound engineer. It'll pay off.
Frequencies:
50Hz and below (Sub-Bass):
not much point in boosting here if you're on 4-string. Cuts here help to reduce woolliness and 'clean up' the sound.
50Hz-100Hz (Low Bass):
The kick drum often resides around here, so it's best not to have a boost in your sound that will end up clashing with it for sonic space. That said, boost here for a truly thunderous low B (if your cab can produce it).
100Hz-150Hz (Bass):
This is where you boost to get some serious thump. That bass that makes your chest vibrate at loud gigs, and makes all the motown players sound so fat? This is where it is. I rarely cut these frequencies, but YMMV.
175hz-300Hz (Low Mid):
IME a lot of passive basses spike a little here, so I often end up cutting. If you play a lot on the lower strings above the octave mark, cuts around here will really help the notes sing and not jump out horribly.
350Hz-750Hz (Mid):
A lot of overtones/harmonics sit around here on a bass guitar, my tone sounds a bit sour if I boost here, but again, YMMV.
800Hz-2kHz (High Mid):
This is where the clarity lies. Boost here for 'bite' and string rattle. Boosting here will help you 'cut through'. A careful boost somewhere in this range can make or break a distorted tone.
2.5kHz-5kHz (Treble):
Boost here for killer slap tones, but also hella string noise when moving your left hand about. Cut here to stop your distortion from walking all over the guitarists.
5kHz and up (Air):
Absolutely not needed for live work, most basses/cabs won't even put anything out in in this range anyway.
Hope that helps! As I said, all this information is entirely from my experience, so YMMV!
Joe
Jimbob Jones said:Here's what I've found about bass tone from experience as a player and a sound engineer, in live and studio situations. I'll cover EQ in this post, I'll do compression next if anyone's interested.
Subtle changes to your EQ can make a big difference, extreme settings are rarely a good thing.
Always listen before you look. Sometimes a setting that 'looks wrong' sounds great, and the audience are going to be listening to you, not staring at the knobs on your amp.
Fitting in with the rest of your band is more important than sounding great on your own. Once you and the guitarist(s) work this out, you're well on the way to becoming a good sounding band.
Distortion generally (but not always) requires more low end than clean.
Your amp and the PA will rarely produce the same tone when you play. Adjust accordingly.
A good sound in the house is more important than a good sound from your cab. Adjust (levels and EQ) accordingly.
Be nice to your sound engineer. It'll pay off.
Frequencies:
50Hz and below (Sub-Bass):
not much point in boosting here if you're on 4-string. Cuts here help to reduce woolliness and 'clean up' the sound.
50Hz-100Hz (Low Bass):
The kick drum often resides around here, so it's best not to have a boost in your sound that will end up clashing with it for sonic space. That said, boost here for a truly thunderous low B (if your cab can produce it).
100Hz-150Hz (Bass):
This is where you boost to get some serious thump. That bass that makes your chest vibrate at loud gigs, and makes all the motown players sound so fat? This is where it is. I rarely cut these frequencies, but YMMV.
175hz-300Hz (Low Mid):
IME a lot of passive basses spike a little here, so I often end up cutting. If you play a lot on the lower strings above the octave mark, cuts around here will really help the notes sing and not jump out horribly.
350Hz-750Hz (Mid):
A lot of overtones/harmonics sit around here on a bass guitar, my tone sounds a bit sour if I boost here, but again, YMMV.
800Hz-2kHz (High Mid):
This is where the clarity lies. Boost here for 'bite' and string rattle. Boosting here will help you 'cut through'. A careful boost somewhere in this range can make or break a distorted tone.
2.5kHz-5kHz (Treble):
Boost here for killer slap tones, but also hella string noise when moving your left hand about. Cut here to stop your distortion from walking all over the guitarists.
5kHz and up (Air):
Absolutely not needed for live work, most basses/cabs won't even put anything out in in this range anyway.
Hope that helps! As I said, all this information is entirely from my experience, so YMMV!
Joe
Very informative. Could you do compression too?
Cool, will probably post at some point over the weekend; I have lots on at the mo!
I'll be the first to admit I don't know as much about comp, but I'll share what I can.
I'll be the first to admit I don't know as much about comp, but I'll share what I can.
^ This. Personally, I like a lot of highs in my tone... whenever I plug into an amp, I set the lows to 6.75, the mids to 5, and the high to 7.5... then based on the amp, I adjust accordingly from there. Obviously this won't be the same for you, but find a tone you like and try to match it. Hope this helps!
Jimbob Jones said:Here's what I've found about bass tone from experience as a player and a sound engineer, in live and studio situations. I'll cover EQ in this post, I'll do compression next if anyone's interested.
Subtle changes to your EQ can make a big difference, extreme settings are rarely a good thing.
Always listen before you look. Sometimes a setting that 'looks wrong' sounds great, and the audience are going to be listening to you, not staring at the knobs on your amp.
Fitting in with the rest of your band is more important than sounding great on your own. Once you and the guitarist(s) work this out, you're well on the way to becoming a good sounding band.
Distortion generally (but not always) requires more low end than clean.
Your amp and the PA will rarely produce the same tone when you play. Adjust accordingly.
A good sound in the house is more important than a good sound from your cab. Adjust (levels and EQ) accordingly.
Be nice to your sound engineer. It'll pay off.
Frequencies:
50Hz and below (Sub-Bass):
not much point in boosting here if you're on 4-string. Cuts here help to reduce woolliness and 'clean up' the sound.
50Hz-100Hz (Low Bass):
The kick drum often resides around here, so it's best not to have a boost in your sound that will end up clashing with it for sonic space. That said, boost here for a truly thunderous low B (if your cab can produce it).
100Hz-150Hz (Bass):
This is where you boost to get some serious thump. That bass that makes your chest vibrate at loud gigs, and makes all the motown players sound so fat? This is where it is. I rarely cut these frequencies, but YMMV.
175hz-300Hz (Low Mid):
IME a lot of passive basses spike a little here, so I often end up cutting. If you play a lot on the lower strings above the octave mark, cuts around here will really help the notes sing and not jump out horribly.
350Hz-750Hz (Mid):
A lot of overtones/harmonics sit around here on a bass guitar, my tone sounds a bit sour if I boost here, but again, YMMV.
800Hz-2kHz (High Mid):
This is where the clarity lies. Boost here for 'bite' and string rattle. Boosting here will help you 'cut through'. A careful boost somewhere in this range can make or break a distorted tone.
2.5kHz-5kHz (Treble):
Boost here for killer slap tones, but also hella string noise when moving your left hand about. Cut here to stop your distortion from walking all over the guitarists.
5kHz and up (Air):
Absolutely not needed for live work, most basses/cabs won't even put anything out in in this range anyway.
Hope that helps! As I said, all this information is entirely from my experience, so YMMV!
Joe
Amazing post! Off topic, how do those frequencies relate to the classic low, mid, and treble knobs?
There is a reason for the vagueness. good tone is so subjective. Jimbob knows what he's talking about. But what works for him, might not work for you (but he already made that clear ((great post))). It varies from room to room, band to band. There is no standard. A small, loud bar will sound a lot different from a large, quiet cathedral, and you will need to adjust eq accordingly.
With the "classic" 3 knobs: bass, mid, treble; your best bet is to set flat (at 12 o'clock) and
adjust to your tastes, or just
adjust the tone of your bass.
With the "classic" 3 knobs: bass, mid, treble; your best bet is to set flat (at 12 o'clock) and
adjust to your tastes, or just
adjust the tone of your bass.
It's easier than that - collect sound clips of what you like
Then spend your time dialing in what you hear.
There's tons of bull on tb about gear- I've been able to dial in most sounds with most gear setups
Then spend your time dialing in what you hear.
There's tons of bull on tb about gear- I've been able to dial in most sounds with most gear setups
Smoke-a-delic post from Jimbob there - several thumbs up, mister. My observations will probably just echo some of the points in his post... but what the heck.
I have a rather simple eq on my rack preamp. The bass controls @ 40Hz, mids @ 300Hz, and treble @ 10kHz. I'm sure that every eq is different, but in my case, this preamp makes a rather nice warm tone with a "flat" setting (no boost or cut).
My sound gets vague when there aren't proper mids to carry it well enough in a mix - we often refer to that sort of tone as "scooped". Personally I like to boost mids more in the neighborhood of 300-400Hz than the ones up around 700-800Hz. Those lower mids seem to put more horsepower than harshness into my sound if I need it, but keep in mind that different instruments will deliver their own recipe of frequencies. Some will be rich with mids while others might have an inherently scooped sound.
One bass I use has that scoop, so I need to boost my mids (and cut my lows a little) when I play it with the band. My other one is a fountain of mids though, so I won't play it with my mid control any higher than "flat". To really mellow it out, I'll turn that mid knob on down to about 9:30-10:00 o'clock.
A smooth 'n groovy tone that makes your ears happy when practicing on your own might not have the mids it needs in a mix with the band. That's important. When you need to be heard in that mix, you might need a small measure of rawness or aggression in your mid setting that you wouldn't want to listen to when playing on your own.
I have a rather simple eq on my rack preamp. The bass controls @ 40Hz, mids @ 300Hz, and treble @ 10kHz. I'm sure that every eq is different, but in my case, this preamp makes a rather nice warm tone with a "flat" setting (no boost or cut).
My sound gets vague when there aren't proper mids to carry it well enough in a mix - we often refer to that sort of tone as "scooped". Personally I like to boost mids more in the neighborhood of 300-400Hz than the ones up around 700-800Hz. Those lower mids seem to put more horsepower than harshness into my sound if I need it, but keep in mind that different instruments will deliver their own recipe of frequencies. Some will be rich with mids while others might have an inherently scooped sound.
One bass I use has that scoop, so I need to boost my mids (and cut my lows a little) when I play it with the band. My other one is a fountain of mids though, so I won't play it with my mid control any higher than "flat". To really mellow it out, I'll turn that mid knob on down to about 9:30-10:00 o'clock.
A smooth 'n groovy tone that makes your ears happy when practicing on your own might not have the mids it needs in a mix with the band. That's important. When you need to be heard in that mix, you might need a small measure of rawness or aggression in your mid setting that you wouldn't want to listen to when playing on your own.
I meet a lot of people who seem very confused about how to set eq. A lot of the time they let me do it for them, which I'm shocked about because I wouldn't just let anyone do mine.
But anyway I've come to the conclusion that the reason a lot of people have a problem is that they are indecisive. You have to just be able to settle on something and be happy with it. And practice.
When I set my eq (it's an ashdown 5 band) I basically just go through each nob and take it up and down, playing and adjusting. When each one sounds good I leave it.
I think really it's that simple. All this stuff about frequency classification is very clever and useful in ways but over egging the pudding as far as I'm concerned, especially because everyone has a different tone they like.
I listen out for the low mids especially when in a club - usually I find if there's anything I'll reduce a lot it's the low mids but it depends on the venue. Then sometimes if the notes aren't coming through I may need to add some top. EQing should be venue/room specific otherwise you're doing it wrong. This means you have to actively listen every time to get the sound how you like it in that particular room.
I think most of eqing (which is most of tone control) is just learning to commit to a decision and then actively reflect on it, learning for next time.
But anyway I've come to the conclusion that the reason a lot of people have a problem is that they are indecisive. You have to just be able to settle on something and be happy with it. And practice.
When I set my eq (it's an ashdown 5 band) I basically just go through each nob and take it up and down, playing and adjusting. When each one sounds good I leave it.
I think really it's that simple. All this stuff about frequency classification is very clever and useful in ways but over egging the pudding as far as I'm concerned, especially because everyone has a different tone they like.
I listen out for the low mids especially when in a club - usually I find if there's anything I'll reduce a lot it's the low mids but it depends on the venue. Then sometimes if the notes aren't coming through I may need to add some top. EQing should be venue/room specific otherwise you're doing it wrong. This means you have to actively listen every time to get the sound how you like it in that particular room.
I think most of eqing (which is most of tone control) is just learning to commit to a decision and then actively reflect on it, learning for next time.
I think young or new players tend to scoop the mids because they like the deep bass and the crisp highs. As you play more with bands, you'll realize that you want some mids so that your bass cuts throught the mix better. Mids are not the enemy!
I generally dial in from high/mid to low. I start by cutting lows/low-mids completely ("cut" not "flat") then dialing in a clear, fundamental mid-upper tone that sounds sweet (albeit weak). I'll play a bit and make sure nothing is biting or jumping out, no excessive string noise, etc. Once I have that dialed in, I introduce low-mids and find any trouble frequencies in the venue. Then I'll bring up the lows. A a couple minor tweaks and a little compression and I'm usually close to the mark.
I like a full, low, clear tone; but I find lows often get in my way when first dialing in.
I like a full, low, clear tone; but I find lows often get in my way when first dialing in.
Here's what I've found about bass tone from experience as a player and a sound engineer, in live and studio situations. I'll cover EQ in this post, I'll do compression next if anyone's interested.
Subtle changes to your EQ can make a big difference, extreme settings are rarely a good thing.
Always listen before you look. Sometimes a setting that 'looks wrong' sounds great, and the audience are going to be listening to you, not staring at the knobs on your amp.
Fitting in with the rest of your band is more important than sounding great on your own. Once you and the guitarist(s) work this out, you're well on the way to becoming a good sounding band.
Distortion generally (but not always) requires more low end than clean.
Your amp and the PA will rarely produce the same tone when you play. Adjust accordingly.
A good sound in the house is more important than a good sound from your cab. Adjust (levels and EQ) accordingly.
Be nice to your sound engineer. It'll pay off.
Frequencies:
50Hz and below (Sub-Bass):
not much point in boosting here if you're on 4-string. Cuts here help to reduce woolliness and 'clean up' the sound.
50Hz-100Hz (Low Bass):
The kick drum often resides around here, so it's best not to have a boost in your sound that will end up clashing with it for sonic space. That said, boost here for a truly thunderous low B (if your cab can produce it).
100Hz-150Hz (Bass):
This is where you boost to get some serious thump. That bass that makes your chest vibrate at loud gigs, and makes all the motown players sound so fat? This is where it is. I rarely cut these frequencies, but YMMV.
175hz-300Hz (Low Mid):
IME a lot of passive basses spike a little here, so I often end up cutting. If you play a lot on the lower strings above the octave mark, cuts around here will really help the notes sing and not jump out horribly.
350Hz-750Hz (Mid):
A lot of overtones/harmonics sit around here on a bass guitar, my tone sounds a bit sour if I boost here, but again, YMMV.
800Hz-2kHz (High Mid):
This is where the clarity lies. Boost here for 'bite' and string rattle. Boosting here will help you 'cut through'. A careful boost somewhere in this range can make or break a distorted tone.
2.5kHz-5kHz (Treble):
Boost here for killer slap tones, but also hella string noise when moving your left hand about. Cut here to stop your distortion from walking all over the guitarists.
5kHz and up (Air):
Absolutely not needed for live work, most basses/cabs won't even put anything out in in this range anyway.
Hope that helps! As I said, all this information is entirely from my experience, so YMMV!
Joe
+1
this just about spot on with my experience,
would also like to reinforce:, many young players get off on how low thier 4x10 will go (40 Hz) etc... what they dont realize , and what the makers of these cabinets dont tell you is that most bass cabs cant produce these low frequncies at enough volume to overcome the other frequencies. (100Hz-150Hz) this is where its at if you want room filling sound.
Also young guys - especially those with picky ears- get some kind of EQ; either semi-parametric and/or graphic. Even if it is just a Boss pedal. This is much more acurate than just bass, mid, treb knobs. In addition to shaping your sound, EQ's help you get the most out of your Amp /Cab combo. You can scoop out some of the mids/ highs that just make noise and super low freq's that just make your amp work harder than it has to, and it adds life to your speakers.
FYI: sitting in front of your amp in your basement/ hearing what sounds good by itself and then going to practice and turning it up sometimes doesnt do it - experiment with EQ at practice with drums and guitar and tweek in between songs. - what you hear by itself is what you do for recording - live on stage sometimes requires tweeking
