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Too "busy" on the bass?!?

#41
Caroline - in the "burn for you" section, maybe not walk up the neck, I can see where a guitarist or singer would think that is intrusive. Otherwise, pretty damn good reggae groove. Good use of ghost notes.
I smoke - good reggae groove. Nothing too busy to my ears.

IMO - too busy is when you're not letting the other instruments' lines breathe a little. Sometimes that means you may be stomping on the singer, others it is a line counter to the spirit of the solo, etc, etc. I get frustrated with this too at times. Like when there is a build up and everyone is walking up the neck in various ways, but I am asked to hold the groove. Why can't I take it up a notch too? Well, sometimes, you need to hold the groove.

Not sure if this is reality or not, but I have been told by guitarists that I am too busy, only to listen to playback and realize when I got "too busy" I was in an upper register, and those notes cut through better than the lower notes. Essentially the same line, different register, thus they were hearing the bass too far out in front. In your song Caroline, this, I believe is what I heard in the "burn for you" part. You went up in the register, and it cut through differently than the groove in the lower register. I am not saying it is wrong, just this may be how it is perceived by a non-bass player.

Good luck OP!
 
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#42
Wolfenstein666 said:
Discretion is the better part of being a bass player. I love busy basslines and I work really hard on some of mine, but there is a time and a place ESPECIALLY when you're playing with more than one guitarist or rhythm player.

I'd say a line is too 'busy' when it sonically starts to stomp on everyone else's bits or just muddles the whole thing down in general.
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It's not easy to play simple lines when everyone else around you is going nuts, but that's what the job is, in many cases. Poor Noel Redding.
 
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#44
viper4000 said:
Caroline - in the "burn for you" section, maybe not walk up the neck, I can see where a guitarist or singer would think that is intrusive. Otherwise, pretty damn good reggae groove. Good use of ghost notes.
I smoke - good reggae groove. Nothing too busy to my ears.

IMO - too busy is when you're not letting the other instruments' lines breathe a little. Sometimes that means you may be stomping on the singer, others it is a line counter to the spirit of the solo, etc, etc. I get frustrated with this too at times. Like when there is a build up and everyone is walking up the neck in various ways, but I am asked to hold the groove. Why can't I take it up a notch too? Well, sometimes, you need to hold the groove.

Not sure if this is reality or not, but I have been told by guitarists that I am too busy, only to listen to playback and realize when I got "too busy" I was in an upper register, and those notes cut through better than the lower notes. Essentially the same line, different register, thus they were hearing the bass too far out in front. In your song Caroline, this, I believe is what I heard in the "burn for you" part. You went up in the register, and it cut through differently than the groove in the lower register. I am not saying it is wrong, just this may be how it is perceived by a non-bass player.

Good luck OP!
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I hear what you're saying. Definitely gave me something to think about on Caroline.
 
#45
Your playing on "Carolyne" is a bit too busy in places to my ear. The part where you start playing long lines higher up seems a little out of the style and it's not executed all that well at that.

But there are also parts where the guitar gets pretty far out of time and it makes the whole thing sound wonky.

Reggae bass lines often function as short motivic countermelodies and so it can sometimes be tricky to nail that without playing too much.

As someone said earlier, let it breathe. You don't need a fill at the end of every phrase, and if you put more space between the fills they will have more impact.
 
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#46
stringtapper said:
Your playing on "Carolyne" is a bit too busy in places to my ear. The part where you start playing long lines higher up seems a little out of the style and it's not executed all that well at that.

But there are also parts where the guitar gets pretty far out of time and it makes the whole thing sound wonky.

Reggae bass lines often function as short motivic countermelodies and so it can sometimes be tricky to nail that without playing too much.

As someone said earlier, let it breathe. You don't need a fill at the end of every phrase, and if you put more space between the fills they will have more impact.
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Thanks for the critique.
 
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#47
RiZzBot said:
My original post wasnt supposed to be about my bassline (I guess in a way it was). Someone wanted to hear a sample. So I reluctantly posted it. My op was a simple question about what constitutes as "too busy". Thanks for you feedback friend.
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Right, I get that. I wasn't criticizing you for posting the clip: I know you only did so because someone asked. I just think that it doesn't really matter what anyone thinks except for you and your bandmates.

To answer your "simple question," my opinion is that there is no such thing as "too busy" in any objective sense; it's always in the eye (or ear, I suppose) of the beholder. Lots of folks will say something like "whatever best serves the song," which sounds terrific but doesn't really help, because "what best suits the song" is, again, entirely in the eye (ear) of the beholder. Sure, there are certain genres in which "authentic" bass lines tend to have a particular character -- like the root-five thing in much country music -- but if you're writing your own material you should do whatever you -- and by "you" I mean the band, collectively -- like and enjoy. Just my $0.02 worth.
 
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#50
RiZzBot said:
Dang, that cut deep friend. :) jkjk. I guess I'm just tired of other musicians (guitar player especially) thinking that the bass needs to be in the background; simple and drowned out by the other instruments. I want to find a way of pushing it up front but still within the confines of whats good for the band as a whole.
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Haha well don't get me wrong, a time and a place. I'm not against busy playing. I just had my band tell me on a song we are writing and forming now to simplify my playing. I thought it was simple enough already! But after I stepped back and really listened to the song and where it was going, I understood and simplified. It all depends on the song and what it needs. I'll never play over or under just for the sake of it. That's not playing bass. That's either thinking too much about it, being egotistical or showing off. I don't need that. I just love playing bass.
 
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#51
So in the song "crazy" there is this beautiful melodic baseline, but when the music stops for the "ba da da da" the bass work doesn't stop with it. That fill, is what I would consider busy. Your singer kinda sounds like nofx which is cool. You can tell your guitar player to cut the effects in half and the solos in half tho, and work on the note bending. That way everyone grows...lol.
 
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#54
RiZzBot said:
Please bare in mind that I am a novice at best. Keep the harsh criticism to a minimum. jkjk I'm pretty thick skinned, let me have it. :D

Carolyn | the Skunk Brothers
i smoke | the Skunk Brothers
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In that case, listen with an open mind. You're a bass player, not a guitarist. Your #1 job is to support rhythm, with musical quality contributed. But it's not all about the bass. Listen to some Duck Dunn on the Stax recordings, or Tommy Shannon with SRV. They always played enough, but not too much.
 
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#55
The guitarist in my band REALLY knows his stuff. He had a talk with me a couple years ago about my lines being too busy as well. It was something along the lines of, "You hear that lick you are doing every bar? try just doing that at the end of each verse.". I did, and he was right. It sounded better and the lick I was so proud of actually stood out more by not saturating the song with it. Your guitarist could just be wrong, but give it a shot. He might not be.
 
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#56
Whenever a band member comments on one of my bass lines, even if I love the line, I try to hear them out. Usually, in the long run, it brings me to a place where I can craft a line that better serves the song.

However! I have been in a band with someone in the past who criticized everything I playee and never offered any constructive insight into what he would prefer me to play. I ended up leaving that band way later than I should have. Don't be me. The manner in which feedback is given is incredibly important. Bands are like families, and mutual respect is absolutely critical.
 
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