Too "busy" on the bass?!?

[superheavyfunk]

So we're in the process of recording a low budget demo; I'm laying down track on bass and told by the guitarist that the bass sounds too busy. What the he**?!? I told him to define too busy, and of course he couldn't. Not the first time I have heard this. My question to you guys is, what defines "too busy"? Why is it too much sometimes and not other times? We're an original band that plays a little rock/reggae/blues. I think I do a decent job of locking in with the drummer. I play what I hear and feel in my soul. It's not like this is some huge production by some huge record label, paying all kinds of cash. We're in my shed recording off a $500 Sonus studio. I hate this term and I'm starting to feel oppressed as a bass player in general. So the next couple track I went "way too busy, just to piss him off. My response to him; deal with it.

You say you play Rock/Reggae/Blues... In Reggae, you can definitely be too busy. If you stepping on the groove, you're doing too much. It's almost always better to do less than more. It's often similar for the Blues. Less is more. Rock, on the other hand, is generally one of those genres where you can go wild and it's fine, as long as you choose your space wisely.

I think in the end, that's really what it boils down to for all of us Bassists. We need to use our ears ALL THE TIME and be very picky about when, where, and how we step forward. Bass is an utterly unforgiving role to play in a band... We may not do a lot sometimes but what we do counts EVERY TIME.

 

[RiZzBot]

Then you should read what John Taylor said about himself: " I wanted to be the most noticed bass player in the world, I was young and arrogant, and I overplayed a good deal"

One of my idols. Now it all makes sense. Thanks for that quote.

 

[gjohnson441496]

Listening to Carolyn, now and I can tell you that the bass is righteous, if anything the GUITAR PLAYER IS TOO LOUD. I hear you sparingly using some type of envelope filter too, not bad.

Not bad. I'm listening now from the top. Thanks for sharing.

 

[gjohnson441496]

Listening to Carolyn, now and I can tell you that the bass is righteous, if anything the GUITAR PLAYER IS TOO LOUD. I hear you sparingly using some type of envelope filter too, not bad.

Not bad. I'm listening now from the top. Thanks for sharing.

The Bud Song production is fine.

The bass on Robbing the Bank/Voodoo can use more umph, or either everything else can come down a notch, but it's a great song.

 

[Shortie]

Bass is a supporting instrument - part of the rhythm section. Your #1 job is to keep the groove going with appropriate, well placed and well timed lines that work with the drums to drive the music forward and give the vx and soloists a platform to expand on.

Many of us (myself included) have a tendency to overplay - too many fills and extra notes that are fun for you as bassist and demonstrate your chops - but objectively speaking they often detract and distract from the mood and feel of the music as a whole. They pull the listeners' and the soloists' ears and attention in a different direction than the desired feel and flow of the music.

Particularly in a recording, when things should be focused and tight, less is always more. You'll find a lot of live material where the bass player will be a lot more active and up front than in recorded versions of the same stuff.

That's probably what your guitarist meant, and he could very well be right. It's not a knock on you, but a reminder that as a bass player, you've got to be a total team player: With great power comes great responsibility.

IMO, the master of "less is more" was Ducky Dunn - RIP - I have tendency to play 3 or 4 notes for every one he plays - but he played on a lot more hits than I ever will...
(He was also just a lot better than me!)

 

[RiZzBot]

The Bud Song production is fine.

The bass on Robbing the Bank/Voodoo can use more umph, or either everything else can come down a notch, but it's a great song.

They're all a work in progress. Thanks buddy

 

[nerkoids]

Thanks buddy. I guess I need to look more into this. The line between just right and too much is so blurred to me that I end up all over the place sometimes.

I don't have access to your clip, but a basic rule of thumb, if everyone else is comping it, or keeping it relatively simple, then the bass should get busy. If everyone is playing intricate parts, then the bass part needs to be a bit more simplified. In a way, it's some kind of Jamerson rule.

 

[Alexis Duntov]

I agree with Lee Moses, the guy probably just isn't used to playing reggae. I only got to listen to a quick clip, so I can't judge for sure, but I thought I'd share anyways: in reggae bass, bumping, busy lines push the song, however the rhythm still needs to breathe. Keep the busy, but stop every other measure or so to breathe. See Devon Bradshaw's lesson on "Kotch"

Top notch kotch

 

[hrodbert696]

In response to the OP's question - "too" busy is busier than serves the song. Whether a given line is too busy depends on whether the song needs it or not. Someone just quoted John Taylor rueing his overbusy younger overplaying, but hold on - does anyone seriously want Rio with a simpler bass line? I think not. I spent a fair amount of the last year or so learning how to play less, after I had spent the couple of years before that building up my speed and accuracy so I could play more. It's a matter of judgment and listening to what the music needs.

I listened to the clips, and personally my reaction is that EVERYONE is doing too much, except for the drummer, at least for what I think makes good reggae. Speaking of John Taylor, one of the rules he mentioned Duran Duran laying down (not that they're reggae, but it's still good sense) was that only one instrument was going to be running effects at any given time, which meant he usually played clean. In these clips the bass and guitar both have lots going on, and they're not complementing each other. The guitar is letting his chords ring out too much rather than using staccato chops to create that reggae rhythm. The bass lines aren't bad in themselves but they never pause to let the song breathe. Even the lyrics patter on too much without much space. I'm not a reggae expert and you all may have a different vision for your sound than what I think of as traditional good reggae, but I would suggest everyone start thinking about how they can relax and let a little more air flow through the song.

The other thing that caught my attention is the OP's repeated statement that they're just a weekend warrior band and not pros. Well, that's fine. But what are the goals? Why are you recording at all? Do you care if it sounds the best it can or not? If you don't, then play whatever you want. If you do, then you can't just brush off a criticism saying "we're just amateurs." Amateurs can be great too. Don't sell yourselves short.

 

[P-oddz]

I only read through a few pages, so my apologies if this has been addressed - but I think all of you could take the advice of listening for the "whole of the song" a little better. At times your parts stray from the groove the drummer is doing too much to maintain the feel of the song (yes, by being too busy). At times I think your drummer is swaying in and out of tempo. At times your guitarists effects have too long of a decay and his percussive playing is totally falling out of beat. All of these things combined, at times, make the appearance of a very busy mix.

Edit: I just read @hrodbert696's comment above mine. He pretty much nailed what I thought.

 

[baileyboy]

We have to pick our spots

Sometimes there is room to move
Other times we should just keep the groove

^^^This^^^

One time I was watching this band playing a song and thought the bass player was absolutely phenomenal. He commanded the fretboard and certainly knew how to play. Initially I thought it was some type of jazz tune, but about halfway into the song I realized it was Ian Hunter's "Sweet Jane". Looking back, the bass player absolutely ruined the song, making it almost unidentifiable by being a showboat. Think Les Claypool in ACDC.

 

[Shortie]

In the end, it always boils down to me reminding him that we dont get paid for this,

IMO getting paid is not the point. The point is making good music. If you want to strut your stuff, do it at jams and loose practices or at a gig when everybody's drunk and stoned.

 

[steve66]

I listened to Carolyn. Your playing compliments the song. You and the drummer gel. IMO however, Your guitarist may be right in some regard. I think by busy he means stay off my solo and just keep the grove going. If you want to add something after his lead to reenter the tune, go for it

 

[Shortie]

Ugh. Musical death (IMO)

Hard to disagree, but I had a teacher who used to tell me milk those notes for all they're worth when we were doing a very simple exercise.

 

[Shortie]

If im being told my line is too busy, then i'm going to want an explanation on why and how.

Try to be objective and do it yourself. Listen to the recording as if it wasn't you playing and just try to enjoy it - what might you think about your playing?

 

[JLW]

Agreed with @hrodbert696 . The conflicts that you and the guitarist have are coming through in the recording. You guys aren't working together musically.

 

[TheDominoKid]

What does everyone else in the band think?

 

[bikeplate]

I'd spend my energy looking for like minded musicians. If you're a good player you'll find others that will appreciate your busy-ness

 

[lfmn16]

If it's the band leader (and employer) saying it, then you do what they say or leave. If it's just a bunch of people playing together, then do what you will and let the chips fall where they may.

+1

The role of the bass - a discussion every bass player should have before joining a band, but almost none of us do. I ALWAYS have this discussion. There is no right and wrong, but if the band wants Dusty Hill and you want to be Jack Bruce, you're going to have a problem.

 

[bass12]

I think a lot of "busyness" is just about personal taste but I think that it can also simply be a matter of good arranging. Creating music consists of filling space and each part has to work with other parts in a harmonious (unless that is not the intention) way. How busy a bass line can get away with being is largely about context (what else is going on in the music) so what is not tasteful in one circumstance might be tasteful in another. It really helps to be able to listen back to one's tracks without ego getting in the way. My instinct is often to overplay. When I listen back to something I have recorded for the first time I usually end up trimming some notes. The player in me wants to play and the listener in me wants things to just sound good - regardless of how simple the bass track might end up being. Again, that's not to say a bass line should be simple or sparse (I love GCS's "Hair" as much as the next guy), just that I think it's best to let the listener in you, and not the player in you, be your guide (in a manner of speaking).