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Too "busy" on the bass?!?

#161
Tell your guitarist Lee Perry's opinion on the instruments in reggae:

"Everyone who started a particular music, you must have heart. Your heart must start go boop-boop, boop-boop. That's the beat of the drum. You have a brain. It go tick-tick, tick-tick tock, that's the bass. Your brain, that's your bass. Your heart is your drum....You can have guitarists around and pianists around if they are not confusing. But as far as I'm concerned, I prefer only to have the bass and drum. Other musicians can join in and do their little thing, jus' don't confuse me."

I listened to the 2 songs, I see a couple of minor issues returning from fills and such, but the bigger issue is the guitar not being in the right rhythm and the mix being a bit off (vocals too low, etc. as others have commented.)

like Scratch Perry says, the bass is supposed to do its thing and the other parts work in around the bass.
 
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#162
rtav said:
Oh wow... do I ENVY you! I recommend listening to Yes, Rush, for exemplary fundamental prog bass playing, with Squire then Lee setting the tone. I recommend listening to Genesis (pre Abacab), ELP, King Crimson and Pink Floyd to get the feel for the most popular foundational prog bands and some of progs best work. Yes' "Close the the Edge" is widely considered still to be the greatest prog album ever made.
Listen to Zappa for some insane over the top comically disturbed and awesome prog, listen to the Dregs for some funkier prog, Porcupine Tree for sheer bad455 awesomeness prog, some Dream Theater, or Opeth, or Pain of Salvation for the heavier prog. Finally, there are bands like Spastic Ink for the sickest, most bizarre and extreme types of prog.

Whatever you like, there's a prog for that.

:)
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Cool, thanks man. I grew up listening to a lot of the earlier classic rock bands you mentioned. After mentioning Zappa, you completely lost me. I dont recognize any of those bands. I will have to check out every one of the bands you mentioned. Thanks again.
 
#164
ianuaditis said:
Tell your guitarist Lee Perry's opinion on the instruments in reggae:

"Everyone who started a particular music, you must have heart. Your heart must start go boop-boop, boop-boop. That's the beat of the drum. You have a brain. It go tick-tick, tick-tick tock, that's the bass. Your brain, that's your bass. Your heart is your drum....You can have guitarists around and pianists around if they are not confusing. But as far as I'm concerned, I prefer only to have the bass and drum. Other musicians can join in and do their little thing, jus' don't confuse me."

I listened to the 2 songs, I see a couple of minor issues returning from fills and such, but the bigger issue is the guitar not being in the right rhythm and the mix being a bit off (vocals too low, etc. as others have commented.)

like Scratch Perry says, the bass is supposed to do its thing and the other parts work in around the bass.
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We're all very new to this recording stuff. I love the quote, I might have to steal it. ;) I appreciate the feedback.
 
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#168
When recording with others, imho, the most important thing is to leave your ego behind. Unless your mission on bass is being a soloist, you role is to support, be the foundation and the glue and keeping it all together. Recording exposes the weaknesses of an ensemble and if the foundation is not strong, the whole thing crumbles down. The more you work on and simplify your bass and drums, the stronger the groove will be. I've been in your situation and though my reaction was to get defensive initially, I had to let go and trust the process (we also had hired a producer to point this things out and work with us). I was perhaps the most neat picked member of my band. A lot of things changed and evolved into simpler versions. The final product vs the original demos prove that the changes and level of attention needed to happen and in fact, I was playing "too busy". I know consider myself a better musician due to those experiences.
 
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#169
RiZzBot said:
We've discussed this till we're both blue in the face. In the end, it always boils down to me reminding him that we dont get paid for this, and him him calling me an a****** and storming out. He always comes back though, so we must be doing something right.
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He said "like adults" :)

You don't get paid but still care enough to bring it up on a forum and ask for advise in how to deal with it. Have you asked what the goals of the other members are? Perhaps it is to have a solid product and perhaps get paid for it!
 
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#170
Didn't read many of the other comments, did listen to parts of each of your songs...

I like your songs, I like certain aspects of your band, and I like a lot of your ideas for bass very much. What I didn't like was that you go for executing your good ideas sometimes without being solid on the beat. When you simplify, you sound on it, but when you get busy, you play a little fast and loose with the beat, and unfortunately it's noticeable. You're giving up the feel for the sake of the notes. Your guitarist is also doing that at times, but honestly, I think he's getting a little thrown.

The thing about great busy reggae basslines isn't so much the lines themselves, but the way the bassist executes them near flawlessly and stays with the drummer. I am not saying you're not good, BTW. You've got a great ear for basslines, and even though they're busy, I think they could work. But for now, you're not tight enough to pull it off. I would definitely consider simplifying your lines, and really concentrate on being on the beat and tight with the drummer above everything else until you get it nailed every time. Then start working in more complex lines as you master the beat, always remembering that you need to be where they need you to be...on it. You show great promise and creativity as far as I'm concerned...you'll pop it.
 
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#172
Already 9 pages long. Not going to read the whole thread so forgive me if this has already been brought up by others.

I learned long ago to simplify and tighten my lines in the recording studio. It's not performance art, it's more like a painting. Everything needs to work together. I'm very capable of playing quite complex and busy lines. Early on, I worked with producers who showed me how to lock in with not just the drummer, but with everything else that's going on too.

One of the bass parts I'm proudest of was not written by me at all, but worked out with two guitar players who knew what they wanted to hear, but not how to play it like a bass player. I put my ego aside and helped to figure it out; it became the foundation for everything.

Serve the song.
 
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#173
I also didn't read through as well but...

To me this sounds like an arrangement thing. Songs are interesting when from time to time various elements pop through and have a featured moment. Maybe a bass lick here, a drum fill there, a guitar or keyboard something or other. It is truly all about give and take. It isn't about simplifying the bass into a boring and monotonous space. It also isn't about taking equal turns. It is about finding the best combination of featured moments that serve the song.

The cool thing is that once you get the song to that place usually everyone recognizes it and is happy with the results. The challenge is it requires communication and planning. Great bands communicate both verbally and non-verbally before, during, and after practicing a song, especially as they are working it up.
 
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#174
bholder said:
It's just what guitar players say when they're insecure about getting all of the audience's attention. I think your response was appropriate. Also might try telling him "too busy" after his big solo.
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Disagree. Many younger bassist are "too busy" - assuming the best about this guitar player, I'd say he's telling you to find the groove, not wank all over the tune. Does that make sense?
 
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#175
I was accused of ''too busy'' also; I was backing (3) females and a lead male singer after years of instrumental stuff. They said I was playing too many notes along with their harmony in between the lead and drummers count. After listening to the recordings- THEY WERE RIGHT! It was an easy fix (let them do all the work:D.
 
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#177
SanDiegoHarry said:
Disagree. Many younger bassist are "too busy" - assuming the best about this guitar player, I'd say he's telling you to find the groove, not wank all over the tune. Does that make sense?
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It could happen that way, but I suspect you're assuming far too much about the guitar player. I agree about finding the groove, but there are lots of guitarists out there who have no clue what that actually means. It's more often the guitarist wanking all over the tune than the bassist, in my experience.
 
#178
RiZzBot said:
Please bare in mind that I am a novice at best. Keep the harsh criticism to a minimum. jkjk I'm pretty thick skinned, let me have it. :D

Carolyn | the Skunk Brothers
i smoke | the Skunk Brothers
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I just listened to Carolyn and I smoke - the others have another bassist on them?
First off...if you deem something you do, good enough to make it public, I doubt anyone will be interested in whether or not you are a novice or not.People critique what they hear. :)

I smoke; I quite like that one but think that the bass is too high in the mix and that to my ear it would sound better without the quack, or with it set differently. Bass is too busy for me during the 1st guitar solo and the lick ,leading back to the verse doesn't sit properly, making it sound untidy. Very close to the end it gets too busy for me again and there is another untidy lick.
I find the song a little long.

Carolyn; I think the bass is mostly not too busy but at places things are attempted that simply don't sit properly yet, making it sound untidy.
Also, the higher register during the beginning of the guitar solo do, to my ear get in the way of both guitar and the voice.
The 'groove parts' are ok but sound a little tense, I think. Nice song.
 
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#179
Guitar players usually have a character model in their mind of what a bass player should do because the note and chord patterns are relative and perceptively "simpler" in order to make those shreds shine. This however, is not reality and the only real way to know ones place on the busy meter is a two part introspective question: 1) Does the bass get in the way or step on something else? If yes, back off. If no, continue. 2) Does the bass control the forward motion of the song? If yes, continue. If no, control it.
 
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#180
RiZzBot said:
Please bare in mind that I am a novice at best. Keep the harsh criticism to a minimum. jkjk I'm pretty thick skinned, let me have it. :D

Carolyn | the Skunk Brothers
i smoke | the Skunk Brothers
Click to expand...

I don't think much of your guitarist's playing TBH. His solos are full of out of tune notes, questionable phrasing and notes that don't work in the key you're in. He should concentrate on his own playing and not worry about yours, which has decent, musical ideas going on
 
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