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Double Bass Too Much Sustain

R

Randy Howard

Apr 2, 2015
186
37
73
#1
Hi all,
I am using a Gollihur Bass Max bridge PU and a GK MB115 combo amp. The problem I am having is that the sustain is just way too much. I need to rely that the tone will decay in a predictable way but it just goes on and on. And please do not tell me about technique and string muting, I already do that. I really want to achieve a more genuine acoustic sound. Un-amplified that is not a problem. Thanks for the help.

Randy
 
#4
“And please do not tell me about technique and string muting, I already do that. I really want to achieve a more genuine acoustic sound. Un-amplified that is not a problem.“

“I play electric bass, and bought a EUB as a crossover. I don’t know how to play it. Tell me what I should buy but don’t criticize my electric bass technique. Please help, knowing that I won’t listen.”
 
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#6
I played a Bass Max for a number of years way back in the early 2000's. It is a very "hot" pickup and does react in a sensitive way to all vibrations of the bridge. What you are likely experiencing is the continued vibration of your strings/instrument that is not enough to resonate the body of the bass to make it very audible, but which the Bass Max still picks up and amplifies. I dealt with the amplified bass though technique at that time and just treated amplified bass as a different animal from acoustic bass. However, there are a couple of other things you could try.

- Try decreasing the input level of your amp and compensating by increasing the output. Running the input stage hot increases sustain and backing it off makes the pickup sound less direct and more ambient. This works as long as your output stage has enough headroom.
- Don't use the limiter, as this can increase sustain as well. With some pickups, I like this function, but with the Bass Max it may well be too much.
- As DoubleMIDI suggests, electronically an expander increases dynamic range of a signal, so it would highlight the attack and minimize the decay of the note.
- Last, for the price of an electronic solution or less, you could replace the pickup with one that doesn't create the same effect. The Invalid Link Removed is reasonably priced and does not sound as "direct" as the Bass Max.
 
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#9
Chris Fitzgerald said:
I played a Bass Max for a number of years way back in the early 2000's. It is a very "hot" pickup and does react in a sensitive way to all vibrations of the bridge. What you are likely experiencing is the continued vibration of your strings/instrument that is not enough to resonate the body of the bass to make it very audible, but which the Bass Max still picks up and amplifies. I dealt with the amplified bass though technique at that time and just treated amplified bass as a different animal from acoustic bass. However, there are a couple of other things you could try.

- Try decreasing the input level of your amp and compensating by increasing the output. Running the input stage hot increases sustain and backing it off makes the pickup sound less direct and more ambient. This works as long as your output stage has enough headroom.
- Don't use the limiter, as this can increase sustain as well. With some pickups, I like this function, but with the Bass Max it may well be too much.
- As DoubleMIDI suggests, electronically an expander increases dynamic range of a signal, so it would highlight the attack and minimize the decay of the note.
- Last, for the price of an electronic solution or less, you could replace the pickup with one that doesn't create the same effect. The Invalid Link Removed is reasonably priced and does not sound as "direct" as the Bass Max.
Click to expand...

Thanks Chris, sounds like good advice. Randy
 
#10
Randy Howard said:
Hi all,
I am using a Gollihur Bass Max bridge PU and a GK MB115 combo amp. The problem I am having is that the sustain is just way too much. I need to rely that the tone will decay in a predictable way but it just goes on and on. And please do not tell me about technique and string muting, I already do that. I really want to achieve a more genuine acoustic sound. Un-amplified that is not a problem. Thanks for the help.

Randy
Click to expand...
Get rid of the spiros and try something like Pirastro EP Slaps. Also get a scrunchy and loop it over your peg box and let it sit just on the finger board side of your nut. This will shorten the sustain on your open notes. A performance mute might help, also I've heard of ppl mounting foam on the playing side of the bridge to dampen the strings. Havent tried that one myself.
 
#11
Grant the Canuk said:
Get rid of the spiros and try something like Pirastro EP Slaps. Also get a scrunchy and loop it over your peg box and let it sit just on the finger board side of your nut. This will shorten the sustain on your open notes. A performance mute might help, also I've heard of ppl mounting foam on the playing side of the bridge to dampen the strings. Havent tried that one myself.
Click to expand...

I use Thomastik nickle flatwounds. Good strings IMHO. Randy
 
#12
Grant the Canuk said:
Get rid of the spiros and try something like Pirastro EP Slaps. Also get a scrunchy and loop it over your peg box and let it sit just on the finger board side of your nut. This will shorten the sustain on your open notes. A performance mute might help, also I've heard of ppl mounting foam on the playing side of the bridge to dampen the strings. Havent tried that one myself.
Click to expand...

Reread your email. Thanks for the tips Grant. Randy
 
#13
Chris Fitzgerald said:
I played a Bass Max for a number of years way back in the early 2000's. It is a very "hot" pickup and does react in a sensitive way to all vibrations of the bridge. What you are likely experiencing is the continued vibration of your strings/instrument that is not enough to resonate the body of the bass to make it very audible, but which the Bass Max still picks up and amplifies. I dealt with the amplified bass though technique at that time and just treated amplified bass as a different animal from acoustic bass. However, there are a couple of other things you could try.

- Try decreasing the input level of your amp and compensating by increasing the output. Running the input stage hot increases sustain and backing it off makes the pickup sound less direct and more ambient. This works as long as your output stage has enough headroom.
- Don't use the limiter, as this can increase sustain as well. With some pickups, I like this function, but with the Bass Max it may well be too much.
- As DoubleMIDI suggests, electronically an expander increases dynamic range of a signal, so it would highlight the attack and minimize the decay of the note.
- Last, for the price of an electronic solution or less, you could replace the pickup with one that doesn't create the same effect. The Invalid Link Removed is reasonably priced and does not sound as "direct" as the Bass Max.
Click to expand...

Backed off the gain and maxed out the master. Also turned off the limiter and contour. Turned down the treble as it was way too percussive sounding. Now I have a usable tone but still not genuinely acoustic, and since the gain is low volume does suffer. But sound is way better now and sustain has been greatly reduced. Probably the best I can get with a low buck setup I suppose. So now I wonder, what is a good amp/cab for acoustic work, like jazz? I will look at the Kremona DB-1 PU when I have the bucks.

PS - What does "boost" do??
 
#14
Everything starts at the beginning of the signal chain, with the bass itself, then setup/strings, then technique, then pickup, then amplifier (including preamp, if applicable), then the speaker or cab, then the room. All of these variables interact at all times.

Is there a player where you are who gets a sound you'd like to emulate? Ideally, find that person and see how they play and what they use. If possible, ask if you could try to play through their setup for a few minutes. You may find that their gear works for you, or that it still doesn't get the sound you want. Either way, you will have learned something that can save you a lot of money in experimenting. If you can manage to try gear before buying, it would be ideal. In the case of your current pickup, it has a full, thick, "rubbery" sort of bottom end that you don't much like, so trying less bass heavy pickups might be a good start.

P.S. - I don't know that amp well enough to know what "boost" does, but it likely boosts the input level and will bring you back to the more "electric" sound you are trying to get away from.
 
#15
If it gets way better when you lower the volume of the amp, it would probably be a feedback problem. Feedback mostly amplifies only some tones, like open D in my case. Try to position your amp different way - lift it so it plays into your ear, not into the body of the bass. Or lay it on the ground speaker up. Or turn 45-90° right or left.
In my experience, the bigger diameter of speaker in the cab, the lower volume for starting the feedback.
 
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#16
I solved the identical issue with my Taylor AB-1 acoustic bass guitar. It's strung with nylon tapewounds. Pretty quiet when played acoustically so not an issue then. But when using a pickup/amp -- the volume emphasized sustain.

The solution was a Malekko Sneak Attack pedal, which lets you adjust the slope and duration of both the attack and decay phases of a note envelope. Settings in the pic below help the ABG sound closer to an upright with gut strings with a very fast attack and decay with steep slopes. Of course it's not the exact same tone as an upright, but I've been very pleased with the results. Works well w/electric bass too to tighten up the sound.

I guess with the amplified upright, the Sneak Attack would enable "MBOL"?

Is there an "expander" pedal for note attack AND decay? Yes: Malekko Sneak Attack

Nano Plus top-crop.JPG
 
#17
I also use spirocores, a bassmax + GK combo most of the time and second the volume attenuation. It will cause you to play harder but the notes will seem to decay faster. Muting with the left hand also helps, especially on open strings.

Was in a studio session with a bluegrass band some years ago and had the bass mic'd + direct from the bassmax. Couldn't figure out why it didn't feel right, or why I had to artificially dampen the notes to cop the bluegrass sound. Then I got the engineer to turn the bass waaay down in the headphone mix, problem solved. I was playing more delicately with the volume up and the smaller dynamic range resulted in more perceived sustain. My $.02
 
#18
unbrokenchain said:
I also use spirocores, a bassmax + GK combo most of the time and second the volume attenuation. It will cause you to play harder but the notes will seem to decay faster. Muting with the left hand also helps, especially on open strings.

Was in a studio session with a bluegrass band some years ago and had the bass mic'd + direct from the bassmax. Couldn't figure out why it didn't feel right, or why I had to artificially dampen the notes to cop the bluegrass sound. Then I got the engineer to turn the bass waaay down in the headphone mix, problem solved. I was playing more delicately with the volume up and the smaller dynamic range resulted in more perceived sustain. My $.02
Click to expand...

Great replies everyone. I do appreciate all the positive input. I have some more homework to do, I can see that. But now I have some good ideas to work with. Thanks so much.
 

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