Trace Elliot Series 6 715 Combo Rattle

[RyNi]

Hello everyone,



A year ago I bought a Trace Elliot Series 6 715 combo amp.

Since a few months it's making a rattling noise when playing, it doesn't matter if it's warmed up or what level the stage output is set.

I replaced the capacitors of the power amp because I saw that one cap was expanding.

After that was done I installed the head back into the cab and glued a rubber piece to the bottom of the head because I thought the rattle could come from the bottom of the amp hitting the wood inside the combo.

After reinstalling the amp and testing it, I found out that the sound is still there.

I did find out that the rattle is gone when the combo is angled to the front or the rear.

I tested the speaker by carefully pressing it in and I noticed no scraping sound so my guess is that the speaker is fine. I don't know where the rattle can come from so I'm hoping that one of you could know what's up with my amp.

Thanks!

 

[Wood and Wire]

Two things I'd check:

Some of the cabinets had small ply blocks, as part of the internal bracing, and occasionally these things could get vibrated / impacted loose, if the glue failed - a small dollop of wood glue is all it takes secure it back in place.

The other obvious candidate (and the first thing I'd check, particularly as you've said aligning the front, or rear edges cured it) would be the carry handles - if they're either the spring loaded variety, or the old-school leather straps.

Also, check if the cabinet front mesh is screwed on tight (or if it is dented, and the speaker is touching it, causing a bit of a fart).

Finally, if that model has a UV black light, check that it's housing is secure, and none of the leads, or starter have come loose.

 

[RyNi]

Two things I'd check:

Some of the cabinets had small ply blocks, as part of the internal bracing, and occasionally these things could get vibrated / impacted loose, if the glue failed - a small dollop of wood glue is all it takes secure it back in place.

The other obvious candidate (and the first thing I'd check, particularly as you've said aligning the front, or rear edges cured it) would be the carry handles - if they're either the spring loaded variety, or the old-school leather straps.

Also, check if the cabinet front mesh is screwed on tight (or if it is dented, and the speaker is touching it, causing a bit of a fart).

Finally, if that model has a UV black light, check that it's housing is secure, and none of the leads, or starter have come loose.

Thank you for your answer!
I checked the front mesh and it's not dented or touching the speaker.
I checked the carry handles and the screws are all tightened.
I don't have the uv black light so that can't cause any issues.

I'll check the internal bracing tomorrow when I'm removing the speaker.
On other forums people have said that they solved the issue by rotating the speaker 45 or 90 degrees and reinstalling it.

 

[Wood and Wire]

Thank you for your answer!
I checked the front mesh and it's not dented or touching the speaker.
I checked the carry handles and the screws are all tightened.
I don't have the uv black light so that can't cause any issues.

I'll check the internal bracing tomorrow when I'm removing the speaker.
On other forums people have said that they solved the issue by rotating the speaker 45 or 90 degrees and reinstalling it.

Re. the handles - check if they vibrate / rattle when you play through the amp.

 

[RyNi]

Re. the handles - check if they vibrate / rattle when you play through the amp.

Ah alright I'll check that as well, thanks!

 

[J Wilson]

Does this occur with several instruments or are you hearing this with the same bass? I once had a Mystery Rattle, and I did everything I could to the amp/cabinet, only to change strings and it vanished. One more entry in the Wierd S++t File.

 

[S-Bigbottom]

Take it outside and see if it is not something in the room that just happened to be rattling at the same time you did a repair.

A new trinket entered the room, location of cab different than before, even if by one inch it now vibrates items that did not previously.

 

[RyNi]

Does this occur with several instruments or are you hearing this with the same bass? I once had a Mystery Rattle, and I did everything I could to the amp/cabinet, only to change strings and it vanished. One more entry in the Wierd S++t File.

I only have one bass and I don't know how I can test it with another bass because I don't know anyone with a bass. I do hear a slight rattle from the bridge when I'm playing so maybe the amp just amplifies that noise. I have had the bass properly set up by a luthier after changing strings

 

[RyNi]

Take it outside and see if it is not something in the room that just happened to be rattling at the same time you did a repair.

A new trinket entered the room, location of cab different than before, even if by one inch it now vibrates items that did not previously.

Alright, I'll try that. Thanks!
I did place it in another room and noticed that there was a lot less rattle but there was still some coming from the amp, the sound was gone when I angled the amp to the front or rear just like in the first room

 

[eniac]

May I suggest removing the amp head from the cab, soldering up a temporary unshielded cable (1/4" plug to 1/4" jack) to connect the amp head to the cab's 1/4" plug, and checking for rattle again. That way the head is mechanically isolated from the cab. The cable doesn't need to be fancy, even plain old 18 gauge hookup wire or zip cord will do. If the noise disappears, then that almost certainly absolves the cab+speaker combination as the culprit.

 

[RyNi]

May I suggest removing the amp head from the cab, soldering up a temporary unshielded cable (1/4" plug to 1/4" jack) to connect the amp head to the cab's 1/4" plug, and checking for rattle again. That way the head is mechanically isolated from the cab. The cable doesn't need to be fancy, even plain old 18 gauge hookup wire or zip cord will do. If the noise disappears, then that almost certainly absolves the cab+speaker combination as the culprit.

I already tried this and the sound was still coming from the cab+speaker. I don't know what could cause it from these two because the speaker feels good when carefully pushing it in. And the weird thing is that the rattle is gone when you angle the amp toward the front or rear

 

[eniac]

This bootstraps off Wood and Wire's suggestion... Try leaving the cab in its normal upright position and sitting on it while you play. If the noise goes away, you may have a ply separation in the wood or a failed glue joint (again what W&W suggested). Or a knot in the wood that's gotten loose over the years. Apologies in advance if you've already tried this test.

I'm assuming this combo hasn't been exposed to any hard bumps, falls, water damage, and so on.

 

[RyNi]

Update:
I just removed the speaker from the cab and I think I found the culprit, there is a layer of glue between the basket and magnet that is dried out and is showing cracks. When I wiggled a screwdriver in between the parts you could see it move. When I put my finger on the seam I could feel it moving while I was playing. I included a picture of the seam, I also have a video where you can see it move when prying with a screwdriver but I can't upload it.

I don't know what the next step is but I'll send the video and picture to a local luthier to see if he thinks this could be the issue. Thanks everyone for helping!

 

[RyNi]

My second question is, if I want to buy a new speaker, preferably from celestion. What specs should I check and keep in mind when chosing a new one?
Should I try to get a new one with the same Vas as the old one or should it be higher or lower? And also for any other specification that is important.

 

[agedhorse]

All of the specs interact with each other, no single spec exists by itself.

 

[eniac]

It's a tough situation. To begin, you'll have to measure the exact internal volume of the cab, then (if the box is ported) measure the port sizes. For round ports: diameter, tube length, and number of tubes. For rectangular ports: height, width, and shelf depth. Then comes the "fun" part: you'll have to use a box simulation application to model various Celestion drivers to see how they perform in that enclosure.

There's a decent discussion from 10 years ago of WinISD vs Bassbox Pro at:

https://www.talkbass.com/threads/bassbox-pro-6-vs-winisd-which-do-you-trust-also-12-driver-recommendation.1130103/

I've been using WinISD 0.7.0.900 for so many years that I know its quirks and how to work around them. But if I were to start over, I'd go with Bassbox Pro.

There's also Speakerbox Lite on the web at:

https://speakerboxlite.com/

...but I can't vouch for its accuracy or lack thereof.

You'll have to decide for yourself whether any of this is worth the effort (headaches). Thinking long term, it might make more sense to retire that combo.

 

[ajkula66]

My second question is, if I want to buy a new speaker, preferably from celestion. What specs should I check and keep in mind when chosing a new one?

From what I can recall, the speakers in many if not all UK-built TE combos and cabinets were custom spec'd so you may not be able to find the exact match. Personally, I'd try to get an answer from Celestion on what the most suitable replacement speaker would be.

Having said that, unless you *really* love that combo I'd suggest looking for a new(er) amp. This is coming from someone who used TE amps for many years and holds them in the highest of regards.

Good luck.

 

[Wood and Wire]

My second question is, if I want to buy a new speaker, preferably from celestion. What specs should I check and keep in mind when chosing a new one?
Should I try to get a new one with the same Vas as the old one or should it be higher or lower? And also for any other specification that is important.

The Celestion website used to have a tool / widget that would offer up suitable modern replacements for legacy drivers, but I can no longer find it ; they do however have an email / FAQ page, where you can ask "Dr Decibel" questions (presumably a bot, for standard FAQ's), or alternatively an email form, to get useful info from a human.

Guitar Loudspeakers & PA Speakers | Contact Us | Celestion

Guitar Loudspeakers & PA Speakers - Contact Celestion to find out more about our full range of PA loudspeakers, as well as their iconic guitar amp speakers

celestion.com

I'd suggest you email them, and see if they can come up with a suitable replacement for the TE driver (serial number usually on a TE sticker on the back of the magnet, and / or black stencil on side of magnet, or basket).

In that case, unless it's almost a direct replacement, you'd be advised to swap all the speakers for the new model.

The other option is to find original TE drivers on eBay (I've seen several complete sets of SMX era, and a few Series 6 era 10" drivers, as either New Old Stock, or great condition spares), or Reverb.

I quite often see Trace Rigs show up in auctions, and go for ridiculously low prices (kicking myself for not bothering to bid on a V-type 1x15 combo, that went for about £40 - could happily have just kept the preamp; not that I would have wanted to pull it apart - and two of Peter Hooks Peavey era Trace Elliot rig, that went for a couple of hundred), so there are sources of spares, if you're patient enough to find one original driver.

Another option to consider is that the current range of Trace Elliot cabinets use Eminence drivers, so you could contact them (if you like the modern Trace tone), and find out if they sell those custom Trace drivers, and if they would be suitable for your cabinet design - their website also used to have a widget where you could input the exact dimensions of your cabinet, and desired voicing, and it would recommend a driver. Maybe it still has that feature, but would be best to contact a human.

No idea if your current speaker is repairable.

 

[RyNi]

The Celestion website used to have a tool / widget that would offer up suitable modern replacements for legacy drivers, but I can no longer find it ; they do however have an email / FAQ page, where you can ask "Dr Decibel" questions (presumably a bot, for standard FAQ's), or alternatively an email form, to get useful info from a human.

Guitar Loudspeakers & PA Speakers | Contact Us | Celestion

Guitar Loudspeakers & PA Speakers - Contact Celestion to find out more about our full range of PA loudspeakers, as well as their iconic guitar amp speakers

celestion.com

I'd suggest you email them, and see if they can come up with a suitable replacement for the TE driver (serial number usually on a TE sticker on the back of the magnet, and / or black stencil on side of magnet, or basket).

In that case, unless it's almost a direct replacement, you'd be advised to swap all the speakers for the new model.

The other option is to find original TE drivers on eBay (I've seen several complete sets of SMX era, and a few Series 6 era 10" drivers, as either New Old Stock, or great condition spares), or Reverb.

I quite often see Trace Rigs show up in auctions, and go for ridiculously low prices (kicking myself for not bothering to bid on a V-type 1x15 combo, that went for about £40 - could happily have just kept the preamp; not that I would have wanted to pull it apart - and two of Peter Hooks Peavey era Trace Elliot rig, that went for a couple of hundred), so there are sources of spares, if you're patient enough to find one original driver.

Another option to consider is that the current range of Trace Elliot cabinets use Eminence drivers, so you could contact them (if you like the modern Trace tone), and find out if they sell those custom Trace drivers, and if they would be suitable for your cabinet design - their website also used to have a widget where you could input the exact dimensions of your cabinet, and desired voicing, and it would recommend a driver. Maybe it still has that feature, but would be best to contact a human.

No idea if your current speaker is repairable.

Alright thanks! I'll look into it.

 

[RyNi]

From what I can recall, the speakers in many if not all UK-built TE combos and cabinets were custom spec'd so you may not be able to find the exact match. Personally, I'd try to get an answer from Celestion on what the most suitable replacement speaker would be.

Having said that, unless you *really* love that combo I'd suggest looking for a new(er) amp. This is coming from someone who used TE amps for many years and holds them in the highest of regards.

Good luck.

Thanks, I'll look into it.