Tracking a 25 minute song

[Charlzm]

I'm in a fantastic band that has great songs, musicians, and overall decent guys. Everyone in the band is in their early 20s...except me. I'm in my early 30s. We are in the process of having enough experience and material to push for a record deal and all the other things a young, excited band wants from the world.

One disagreement I'm having with them is the idea of investing time and money into tracking a 25 minute song. All of our songs at this point are in the 6-10 minute range (prog band,) but I'm opposed to putting this on an EP, for which we already have 5 songs coming in around 40 minutes, excluding this long one. I've reached out to my local musical mentors and they all have advised against it. The two tracks we have released independently are good, but even my fiancé says she doesn't listen to more than a couple of minutes of either song when it comes into her Spotify playlist. People are engaged with our live shows and we have sold well both putting on our own shows as well as opening for touring acts. We have received good feedback from touring bands that are, for lack of a better phrase, players in the game.

I feel the egos are getting in the way of progress. I'm worried someone who mixes a 25 minute song will get bored and half-ass it, and a label will view us as pretentious. I've been playing in bands for 16 years now and have made my mistakes, and I don't really want to make the 20 year old mistakes I made when I was 20 years old, when resources weren't as readily available. If I knew the answers, I wouldn't be asking, so if anyone has input that I can give back to my band, I'd appreciate it, since everything else I've presented regarding this hasn't been taken seriously. Thanks TB friends.

If you're trying to appeal to prog fans, a 25 minute song (if it's good) is a sure-fire way to do it.
Do what you think and feel is right and hopefully an audience will find find you.

Think about some prog albums beloved by fans:

Rush - "2112" and "Hemispheres" (both with songs/suites over 18 minutes)
Yes - "Close to the Edge", "Tales from Topographic Oceans" and "Relayer" (ditto)
Pink Floyd - "Meddle" ("Echoes") and "Wish You Were Here" ("Shine on You Crazy Diamond Pts 1 and 2") and "Animals" ("Dogs")
ELP - "Tarkus" and "Brain Salad Surgery"
Genesis - "Foxtrot" ("Supper's Ready")
Dream Theater - "Change of Seasons" EP (title track)
Fates Warning - "No Exit" ("Ivory Gate of Dreams" suite)
etc...

You get the idea...

 

[br1qbat]

I think it's worth noting that all the long songs that folks are using as examples were released after the band had a record company.
In any event, it's hard to know what is wanted by people making decisions about deals or endorsments... my guess is it's usually money.
Research your labels. If they have other talent that have 25 minute songs, then include it; if not, then take it out.
Maybe instead of recording that track, use the money to have a decent video of it being performed live, and add it to the EPK. If you think live is where it gets the best reaction, show it in that environment.

If he was in a country band, it would be different! I like both (among other genres) doom metal and prog. Long songs are common in both genres. Old bands, new bands, first albums, etc - doesn't matter. It comes with the territory. Some fan bases have different expectations. I, for one, would be a tad disappointed if a prog band didn't tackle a 15-25min piece. It's one of the things I love about prog.

 

[flojob]

If he was in a country band, it would be different! I like both (among other genres) doom metal and prog. Long songs are common in both genres. Old bands, new bands, first albums, etc - doesn't matter. It comes with the territory. Some fan bases have different expectations. I, for one, would be a tad disappointed if a prog band didn't tackle a 15-25min piece. It's one of the things I love about prog.

I think that's a valid point. Picking the right label that understands their target audience is going to be even more important.

 

[br1qbat]

A

I think that's a valid point. Picking the right label that understands their target audience is going to be even more important.

And usually these days, niche labels, like those who would sign a prog band in the first place, are going to be familiar with prog and what prog fans want.

 

[Biggbass]

25 min is a long time to expect today's audience to pay attention and stay tune in.
most people have a 30 second attention span. so if it's gonna be 25 min long it better be a masterpiece.

 

[Obese Chess]

Cut the 25-minute track into sections. BTBAM's "Colors," for example, is technically one 64-minute song, but it's broken into eight pieces.

EDIT: TesseracT's "Concealing Fate" is technically one 27 minute song but broken into six pieces. Same thing. Just another example.

 

[Max Blasto]

I say do it.
If the record company wants something accessible, point to the other five songs.

 

[Clef_de_fa]

It is prog, prog can have a 25 min song. Why not.

Do you want to do it ? Or you are just there thinking it won't sell and so you'll either abandon it or half-assed it into something else ?

Stop the fear and just do it. You are in a prog band ... you aren't going to play on the radio again other over processed 3min song for the short attention span people.

 

[Clef_de_fa]

25 min is a long time to expect today's audience to pay attention and stay tune in.
most people have a 30 second attention span. so if it's gonna be 25 min long it better be a masterpiece.

Prog fan and band do make very long songs ... where is the problem with that ? Not everything have to be about selling to the lowest common denominator

 

[Renaissance]

I'm not a progger myself so I might be talking completely out of my azz, but I see it as a numbers game.

I'm assuming the song is 25 minutes long because it takes that long to say what you have to say (otherwise it's just repetitious). Do you really want to hang your hat on someone giving you an honest listen and finding out a half hour later they really didn't like the conversation? That (to me) is a fairly big investment in time.

On the other hand, for the same half hour listener investment you can present three different musical ideas. Maybe one really catches their attention and hooks 'em.

I say do whatever it takes to put the odds for success in your court.

As previously noted, I may just be out of touch with "prog norms".

Good luck!

 

[dbsfgyd1]

I'm in a fantastic band that has great songs, musicians, and overall decent guys. Everyone in the band is in their early 20s...except me. I'm in my early 30s. We are in the process of having enough experience and material to push for a record deal and all the other things a young, excited band wants from the world.

One disagreement I'm having with them is the idea of investing time and money into tracking a 25 minute song. All of our songs at this point are in the 6-10 minute range (prog band,) but I'm opposed to putting this on an EP, for which we already have 5 songs coming in around 40 minutes, excluding this long one. I've reached out to my local musical mentors and they all have advised against it. The two tracks we have released independently are good, but even my fiancé says she doesn't listen to more than a couple of minutes of either song when it comes into her Spotify playlist. People are engaged with our live shows and we have sold well both putting on our own shows as well as opening for touring acts. We have received good feedback from touring bands that are, for lack of a better phrase, players in the game.

I feel the egos are getting in the way of progress. I'm worried someone who mixes a 25 minute song will get bored and half-ass it, and a label will view us as pretentious. I've been playing in bands for 16 years now and have made my mistakes, and I don't really want to make the 20 year old mistakes I made when I was 20 years old, when resources weren't as readily available. If I knew the answers, I wouldn't be asking, so if anyone has input that I can give back to my band, I'd appreciate it, since everything else I've presented regarding this hasn't been taken seriously. Thanks TB friends.

If this is you initial offering I would recommend doing a subsequent release. JMO.

 

[Felken]

Think about all the bands you like. Did they care about the record labels said would sell or not? No, they didn't. If your band wants a 25 minute long song, then do it.

 

[TemplesOfSyrinx]

Go for it. But if you're looking for a label to work with, I would look towards Invalid Link Removed

One of my favorite prog debuts.

 

[buldog5151bass]

I would imagine most of the time these people are not listening for enjoyment, but to decide whether or not your music is marketable. Maybe down the road, but not now, unless you are selling it on your own.

 

[juancaminos]

I'd say that you should have enough tracks up front for the executives and the general public to focus on. The 25 minute track can be a "deep track" as mentioned. What is wrong with that? You could always ask...right?

 

[loveandbass]

25 minutes is long...that’s coming from someone who loves orchestral music, phish and the Grateful Dead. That’s long. As a composition it could likely be pared down a bit. Releasing a live track on the other hand is a win win.

 

[packhowitzer]

Echoes is 23 1/2 minutes long and i have yet to get tired of listening to it after 30 or so years of listening to Pink Floyd. ymmv.

 

[Bassgeer]

Go for it, that is what prog fans want! But make sure it is a solid track with substance, don't pad it with filler just so you can say you have a "long" song.

Seventh Wonder's title track song The Great Escape is 30:41 long, and IMHO one of the best prog songs to be released in the last decade. It does a fantastic job of telling a story, and creating an atmosphere for the listener.

If you are going for a really long song, make sure that you have something to say, and that it truly needs to be 25 minutes long. Each part should serve a clear purpose and move the narrative forward in an interesting way. If not, trim the fat. Better to have a 20 minute song, or even a 15 minutes song that demands attention than a 25 minute song that starts interesting but turns into a slow bleedout.

Good luck!

 

[TemplesOfSyrinx]

Another stellar prog debut. Sadly, they seem to have disbanded. Their epic that starts and ends with the song Fingerprints is made up of 6 different songs. 30 minutes in total and completely worth it IMO.

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

I'm in a fantastic band that has great songs, musicians, and overall decent guys. Everyone in the band is in their early 20s...except me. I'm in my early 30s. We are in the process of having enough experience and material to push for a record deal and all the other things a young, excited band wants from the world.

One disagreement I'm having with them is the idea of investing time and money into tracking a 25 minute song. All of our songs at this point are in the 6-10 minute range (prog band,) but I'm opposed to putting this on an EP, for which we already have 5 songs coming in around 40 minutes, excluding this long one. I've reached out to my local musical mentors and they all have advised against it. The two tracks we have released independently are good, but even my fiancé says she doesn't listen to more than a couple of minutes of either song when it comes into her Spotify playlist. People are engaged with our live shows and we have sold well both putting on our own shows as well as opening for touring acts. We have received good feedback from touring bands that are, for lack of a better phrase, players in the game.

I feel the egos are getting in the way of progress. I'm worried someone who mixes a 25 minute song will get bored and half-ass it, and a label will view us as pretentious. I've been playing in bands for 16 years now and have made my mistakes, and I don't really want to make the 20 year old mistakes I made when I was 20 years old, when resources weren't as readily available. If I knew the answers, I wouldn't be asking, so if anyone has input that I can give back to my band, I'd appreciate it, since everything else I've presented regarding this hasn't been taken seriously. Thanks TB friends.

You can go ahead and track it, just dont ever play it live. Like...ever. I think 10 minutes is kinda pushing it, even for a progressive style. That's more in the realm of a classical concerto. Where the entire show is one song, and more like a play done entirely with sound. I couldn't imagine listening to it all the way through more than once. Or, record the track and split it in to different parts (separate tracks) but it's really only one song. Like the animals album. I love that album.