Tracking a 25 minute song

[Admiral Akbar]

Band sounds great!

Sounds like Queensryche-era prog Rock/metal... Very well executed and produced...

Here's the thing with 25 minute song:

I see both sides.

As a prog band, 25 minute pieces are par for the genre. If the tune is great and needs 25 minutes, then get it on the album (not EP).

On the other hand--who are you marketing this to? Will Millennials really dig a 25 minute rock song?

I believe in the end, you guys need to be true yourselves as artists. Get the song recorded. I don't know about putting it on an EP, but nothing wrong as an album side. Best of luck, and enjoy the ride!

 

[beans-on-toast]

The idea of a relitively unknown band getting a record deal to finance recording is not how it usually works these days. You have to prove yourself on many levels first. Record companies want a product that they can market and use to make a large amount of money.

Go for the 25 minute song. This is about having fun.

On a budget, you can obtain excellent results only using mics or direct, a DAW and plugins. Inexpensive digital equipment that can rival studio recordings made even ten years ago. There are online mixing and mastering services that are affordable.

Progressive music works well in TV shows and movie soundtracks. This is a huge money maker. Well worth looking into. Start by reading this and watch the video.

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[Uncle Hanky]

[QUOTE="Admiral Akbar, post: 21334342, member: 239517 Will Millennials really dig a 25 minute rock song?

As an “older” Millennial (I was born in ‘83), I can tell you with absolute certainty that there’s a fairly sizable minority (I love oxymorons) who would indeed enjoy “burning some sage” and jamming to a 25 minute track.

 

[JRA]

I think the nay sayers are just being weak

"ignorant" is the term i'd abide by. "weak?" not so much.

a 25 minute track is par for the course in prog,

OK, i get it....there's a market for this!

no matter what: i wish the OP much luck with the project!

Do it! Shows some balls. You only live once...might as well go for the gusto.

Know your target audience, and to thine own selves be true.

 

[peoriashows]

I'm in a prog metal band too and we did everything we could to make our 26 minute epic the best song on our upcoming album. Prog fans will take you more seriously and be more likely to buy the album when they see the running time of that song. I'm failing to see why you'd have an issue with it. If you were a Blink 182 cover band, it would be out of place, otherwise go for it.

I'm in a fantastic band that has great songs, musicians, and overall decent guys. Everyone in the band is in their early 20s...except me. I'm in my early 30s. We are in the process of having enough experience and material to push for a record deal and all the other things a young, excited band wants from the world.

One disagreement I'm having with them is the idea of investing time and money into tracking a 25 minute song. All of our songs at this point are in the 6-10 minute range (prog band,) but I'm opposed to putting this on an EP, for which we already have 5 songs coming in around 40 minutes, excluding this long one. I've reached out to my local musical mentors and they all have advised against it. The two tracks we have released independently are good, but even my fiancé says she doesn't listen to more than a couple of minutes of either song when it comes into her Spotify playlist. People are engaged with our live shows and we have sold well both putting on our own shows as well as opening for touring acts. We have received good feedback from touring bands that are, for lack of a better phrase, players in the game.

I feel the egos are getting in the way of progress. I'm worried someone who mixes a 25 minute song will get bored and half-ass it, and a label will view us as pretentious. I've been playing in bands for 16 years now and have made my mistakes, and I don't really want to make the 20 year old mistakes I made when I was 20 years old, when resources weren't as readily available. If I knew the answers, I wouldn't be asking, so if anyone has input that I can give back to my band, I'd appreciate it, since everything else I've presented regarding this hasn't been taken seriously. Thanks TB friends.

 

[RichardW]

Beethoven's 9th Symphony is 55-minutes long. Just saying.

 

[ItsmeSantiago]

Thanks to everyone offering up rather passionate feedback! My biggest issue right now is cost. It’ll take a lot of resources for a single song. With that said, my feeling is now is not the time, not scrap it altogether.

 

[Luciferiad]

it seems to me prog is music for musicians. That said, I don't listen to much prog. But then, I'm a bassist, not a musician lol

However, I will listen to Empire of the Clouds by Maiden in its entirety, though that comes in a fair bit shorter at 18 minutes.

 

[Admiral Akbar]

Beethoven's 9th Symphony is 55-minutes long. Just saying.

Beethoven’s 9th is a musical masterwork.

The op’s piece is probably awesome, but it’s rock & roll! Not a fair comparison.

 

[mellowinman]

Beethoven’s 9th is a musical masterwork.

The op’s piece is probably awesome, but it’s rock & roll! Not a fair comparison.

One of the greatest Prog Rock compositions I can think of is Yes's "Close to the Edge." It's a masterpiece. A real work of rock art. And it doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as Beethoven's 9th Symphony, which is a genius composition by one of the greatest composers to ever live.

1,000 years from now, they will still be talking about Beethoven.

 

[Son of Wobble]

At 40 minutes you guys already have an LP.

I would compromise, see if you can release your (5) 10 minute songs as is and save the 25 minute goliath for its' own EP release.

I think this is the best practical advice. Labeling your five songs an LP rather than EP will give you a slight advantage, perceptually.

The 25-minute opus can be released on the heels of the LP as a chaser, and the band can italicize the song by releasing it separately, too. Treat like it it is a special artifact. Press it up on usb bracelets or CDs and try to get your core to fetishize the number as a special treat, so that when you bust it out live on occasion, initiates will be delighted. Plus, you'll have two releases in your catalogue.

Whereas, tacked as a 25 minute capper on an album already a sufficient 40 minutes long, it is simply apt to get cut short at the end of a car journey or what have you.

 

[BigBasserino]

Honestly just as a metalhead, if I were given a 25 minute song that may not even need to BE that length, I'd probably not devote enough mental attention to give it any dignity.

3 to 4 good 5 minute tracks would make a better impression.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

I have no expertise other than that I like prog bands myself. On the one hand, as many have said, a 25 minute track is par for the course in prog, and fans would have no problem with it. On the other, it may not be what you want to LEAD with right out the gate on your first EP. I would suggest holding it in reserve while you get some shorter and more accessible material out, then unveil it later once you start having a record company and crowd warming up to you.

Any prog band with any credibility has to have a long suite with sections with Roman numerals and multiple time signatures. Extra points for references to mythological creatures from at least one pantheon, and more for the use of unusual instruments not normally used in rock and/or roll.

 

[bearfoot]

There are prog fans who would probably mix it for the fun of it, although results and timeliness may vary, contents may settle in transit, etc.

You know , this sparks an idea. Not an original idea but still. For instance, I once saw that DB had made the "Space Oddity" tracks available, and people could make their own mix of it.

This would be a cool angle for a prog band. Release a long composition, with the intention of setting it up so fans can do their own mixes of the track.

 

[D.A.R.K.]

There's room for everything now, and more than enough people to have an audience- you just gotta find them and hold attention. A label is not a PR company, although some do in- house PR to an extent. They may have a relationship that can help, but it'll cost the same. As with booking, etc. You are better off making your own direct relationship though. I'd make sure whatever you release, that there is video to go with it. With what you are doing, as an independent, I'd suggest the optional approach of hiring PR, releasing a tune/ video a month (at 20 minutes or more it's like a full release anyway) on Band Camp and a streaming placement service, and work 8 or so media platforms (fb, Spotify, mix cloud, you tube, band camp, twitter, Instagram, snap chat, etc etc) and build your audience. You can also likely find the best label through this process. You can give 50% of your earnings away to that label later (standard indie split), no need to rush into that. No matter the deal you get, you still have to pay for everything. Pay as you go, build your audience, stay in control, get a label when you really need it. My $.05 as a small label owner (working on our 17th release in just over 2 years).

 

[Charlzm]

Beethoven's 9th Symphony is 55-minutes long. Just saying.

It's also broken into four sections which are pretty distinct from each other.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

Honestly just as a metalhead, if I were given a 25 minute song that may not even need to BE that length, I'd probably not devote enough mental attention to give it any dignity.

Quite often your 25 minute epic is four five minute tracks, a two minute quiet interlude, and then some sort of three minute compendium. There just aren't any gaps so no need for stage banter. Some long pieces are cut-and-shuts of initially unrelated pieces.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

You know , this sparks an idea. Not an original idea but still. For instance, I once saw that DB had made the "Space Oddity" tracks available, and people could make their own mix of it.

This would be a cool angle for a prog band. Release a long composition, with the intention of setting it up so fans can do their own mixes of the track.

I've done some remixes from stubs. In some cases only the vocals have survived from the originals. I must do more with the results.

When 90% of the original is gone, and even the original structure has been changed, to what extent is it a remix compared to an original?

 

[Omega Monkey]

I wouldn't listen to 90% of the responses in this thread, which seem to be from people who have probably never listened, and certainly never been able to appreciate progressive music. A 3 minute pop song can be great. But sometimes, there are those of us who want something more. Those are your potential fans.

I will say, the length is sort of irrelevant in this context (it should ALWAYS be irrelevant, but people are weird). What's relevant is the overall quality of the song itself (is it GREAT?), and whether the pacing is good to last that amount of length. Dont do the Primus thing of having a killer 4 minute song and then beating the main riff to death for an extra 2 minutes beyond that. A big piece like that should theoretically be your best song or one of the best. Is it? It shouldn't just be long to be long, it should be long because the content demands it. Is everyone else thrilled with it and it's just you who dont like it much?

If it's truly NOT one of your best songs, it might need to be revamped, which could include editing it down (not necessarily), or just improving the individual sections. Once it IS one of your best songs, it should probably go on your FIRST release, in place of some of your shorter weaker songs. A big long 20+ minute piece and maybe 3 6-10 minute pieces makes a nice concise album length of 40+. If you can't bear to leave anything off after making sure each track is as awesome as it can be, then you know you're on to something, and you can just release it all together as 60+ minutes.

Honestly, I can't count the amount of times I've gone and seen a "local" band who were awesome live, and you buy their 1 CD, and the stuff is completely undeveloped and basic and doesn't include any of the coolest stuff they were doing. So don't be that band. But also, keep the budget in line with your revenue. If you gig once a month and the whole band makes $50 to split, then don't go blow $10k hiring a studio and a badass producer. Try to do things more DIY. Practicing to the extent that you can lay stuff down in as few takes as possible will be a huge money and time saver. And doing as much preproduction as you can (coming up with all the guitar/keyboard tones, making sure lyrics are finalized, making sure instruments are set up and have new strings/heads just before the session, etc...). If you guys can record on your own, even better. But sometimes it's good then to spend whatever budget you might have on mixing, especially if you don't have a really strong engineer in the band.

 

[electracoyote]

I just listened to "Memoria." That is really good stuff. Atmospheric prog metal, reminds me of Savatage. Well-written and executed. The real deal. If you guys can pull that off live, you're sitting on huge potential.

It's worth noting that none of your material fits the 3-minute pop song mold, so you've already violated that standard. Why deny your true nature? May as well keep exploring regardless of song length, it seems to be who you are as writers and a band.

You guys have done an incredible amount of legwork and laid an awesome foundation.

Any label/distributor can find out what you're up to with the songs you've already published on-line. That should be enough to spark the interest of a support company that is a good fit.

From a marketing perspective, you have built a shining beacon on a hilltop and pulled off a relatively rare feat in the music industry. It's not appropriate at this point to spend a lot of time and effort chasing and changing for your audience and support team; they should be coming to you, right where you are, figuratively speaking. And they will.

Any label/distribution/production team that can't see the commercial/marketing potential of your product, or wants you to make fundamental changes, is a waste of time and not worth pursuing. There are undoubtedly production teams out there that "get it" and would love to work with you guys. Hold out for them.

Again, I say to thine own selves be true. If a 25-minute high-quality epic is part of your package, do not be afraid to show that side of your band to anyone. And work that live show to perfection.