Translocating a pickup via surgery: 60's to 70's placement

[ghoulbug]

I recently got a Lakland Darryl Jones bass, but I guess I should have been more selective because the thing weighs over 11.5 lbs.
It's made of swamp ash, but really heavy as I said, and I began wondering if the stock 60's pickup location was detrimental to its own nature.

I'm considering having the bridge pickup relocated closer to the bridge to a 70's location. I guess that would require routing out a new hole, filling in the old one, then repainting over it.

Would you guys consider this a realistic possibility? I know hiding the repair job with paint will be a bitch.
Since a hole has to be cut out, would autografting that piece to the new open space work?

Edit: I emailed a tech in San Fran asking the same thing, but have yet to receive a reply...

 

[HeavyDuty]

Moved at OP's request...

 

[Rocky McDougall]

IMHO you will be paying someone several hundred dollars to distroy the value of this bass. I have tested bridge pups in different locations and the tone difference is slightly noticable. This tone could probably be achieved by EQing.

 

[David Jayne]

^+1. Don't do it. Complete waste of time/money. The wood that is removed will become sawdust, by the way. No way to reuse it.

 

[ghoulbug]

Hmm... I see..
The biggest concern for me is the part about painting over the fill-in. Wondering if it's possible to save the paint at least (throwing away the sawdust!) and fill in the gap? Then there would only be a small seam left to fix...

Just found a pic over at Sadowsky where they tried to fix a ding from a funky-colored Metro. Wonder if that's the best one could do on a poly finish.........
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[Rocky McDougall]

I have plugged several unused pickup routes over the years and there is one reoccuring problem. The new wood, does not expand and contract like the wood around it and if you have a glossy finish, it will probably show thru with the outline of the plug. If it is covered by a pickgard then it is not a problem. But don't expect a invisible repair.

 

[thobbinghotrod]

This bass has two problems for you, it's too heavey and you want a different tone from it. Sell it and buy what you want.

 

[ghoulbug]

This bass has two problems for you, it's too heavey and you want a different tone from it. Sell it and buy what you want.

Have seriously considered it.
But I've had it for such a short time, and it was a gift so I wouldn't be comfortable with it. I'd rather see if I can possibly work with it to achieve what I want...

I have plugged several unused pickup routes over the years and there is one reoccuring problem. The new wood, does not expand and contract like the wood around it and if you have a glossy finish, it will probably show thru with the outline of the plug. If it is covered by a pickgard then it is not a problem. But don't expect a invisible repair.

I see... So you have experience doing something like this before! Disheartening about the repair lines though... Wood is such a sensitive thing to work with. Could you tell me a bit more about the plugging jobs you have done?
Thanks for the great insight. Much appreciated.

 

[joeyl]

the tiny difference in sound would be buried in a live band situation, no worth it. If you wanted to radically change the sound, consider an ACG preamp, at 300 bucks it will be less headaches and more gain than a wood plug

 

[ghoulbug]

Heh, I actually gave up a chance to get a used J-retro for a passive EQ box. Didn't want to devalue the bass by messing with the electronics. Oh, the irony..

I have to confess that it'd be great to have a..... Marcus Miller tone. I can always get a preamp upgrade at any time, but I got the feeling that the missing link in the chain was in the pickup placement.

Take for, example, what I was told over on the electronics forum. http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7305012&postcount=4

And also another guy who inspired me to consider the whole thing! He cut up his new Atelier Z and plugged up his space with a black pickguard.
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5376346&postcount=13
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5413223&postcount=14

I noted how he said, "I think there is a difference as well and I don't think EQ can compensate for it. I've tried.I'm way into the Marcus Miller sound"
Also:

"I wish I whould have known about this little difference years ago. My bass sounds soooo much better to me now.Any bass I would buy in the future would have to have that 70s spacing."

 

[ugly_bassplayer]

I recently got a Lakland Darryl Jones bass, but I guess I should have been more selective because the thing weighs over 11.5 lbs.
It's made of swamp ash, but really heavy as I said, and I began wondering if the stock 60's pickup location was detrimental to its own nature.

I'm considering having the bridge pickup relocated closer to the bridge to a 70's location. I guess that would require routing out a new hole, filling in the old one, then repainting over it.

Would you guys consider this a realistic possibility? I know hiding the repair job with paint will be a bitch.
Since a hole has to be cut out, would autografting that piece to the new open space work?

Edit: I emailed a tech in San Fran asking the same thing, but have yet to receive a reply...

Believe me, WAY to much work for so little change in sound.
Sell it get another one.

 

[gimmeagig]

Hi
I have done this Mod to my Atelier Z with great success.
I have had a Bass that I put together out of different parts, that looks and plays beautifully but because it never sounded quite right I did not play it much.
The neck is from a Modulus Flea bass, the body is a Warmoth,Pickups Fender SCNs, Aguilar OBP1 preamp,ABM Bridge and a Hipshot D Tuner.
Now after moving the pickup it actually sounds better that my 74 Jazz.
If you are into the Marcus thing like I have been for decades,the difference in tone between the 60s and 70s position is huge and absolutely cannot be created by EQing or using different preamps.
I'm not saying it's better for everybody but it is what you need to look at when you are trying to get the Marcus Miller tone.
I just saw a video of Jeff Andrews and he must have had a 70s bass which has been converted to the 60s position.He's a Jaco type player so I guess that's where he needs the rear pickup to be.
The modification will always be visible and will definitely affect the resale value of your instrument, but if you love your bass in every other regard and are not planning on selling it, go for it. You will not be sorry.
http://i261.photobucket.com/
albums/ii73/gimmeagig/moduluspostop014.jpg

 

[gimmeagig]

Here's a closeup.Three pieces of Pickguard materia laminated on to op each other,the lower two pieces are routed for the pickup tabs and the top one is just rectangular.Looks almost like a Musicman pickup.

 

[ctmullins]

Honestly, I can't figure out how a few mm of placement would make any discernable difference in sound. Not saying you're wrong, by any means. Just saying that I can't wrap my brain around the physics of it.

 

[thobbinghotrod]

What's the measurement from the nut for 70's spacing?

 

[Rocky McDougall]

The early 70's to 82 bridge pickup was .4" closer to the bridge. The difference in tone is barely noticable, IMO.

 

[ghoulbug]

gimmeagig,

First off, thanks for replying to the thread. You were the one who inspired me to consider this in the first place.
I see you modded another bass! Was this warmodulus fixed up before or after you changed your AtelierZ? (do you still have that one by the way?)

the difference in tone between the 60s and 70s position is huge and absolutely cannot be created by EQing or using different preamps.

It's interesting that what you say contradicts the general consensus here. But being the avid Marcus Miller fan that you are, and apparently having done the mod TWICE, I know I can regard your opinions seriously. It's disheartening (and a bit surprising) that no one else but we are the ones to have considered this issue...

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Here's a link to Ed Friedland slapping on a Fender 75 reissue, passive with flat EQ (though gets EQ'ed at the half-way point).
It's mind-boggling how close the original tone is to Marcus's. Do your modded basses both sound like this, gimmeagig?


I also know how it's said that "Marcus gets his tone from his FINGERS," but it's funny how Marcus doesn't have his tone playing his own signature bass. I wonder what's up with that? Check the link below at around 2:27.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-d3Hv1M6Rio&feature=channel_page&fmt=18

 

[ghoulbug]

As for the mod itself, I saw Jeff Andrews and saw he had a mod just like yours, except his went the opposite direction.
Was this what you saw?

The plugging looks pretty flat, though. Since the color on his bass is so worn, makes me wonder why he didn't bother to darken the plug at least a little bit.
On a clear, natural bass like yours, I think the best course was for you to disguise the plug as part of the pickup, and not the body. The grain and paint would stick out too much.

My own bass is opaque white, though, so wouldn't that be a little easier to paint over(even considering how many shades of white there are)?

 

[David1234]

Why not buy a Warmoth body to fit your other hardware, with the routing you like and maybe even a different look. You can then go back and forth (with a bit of work) whenever you like.

 

[ghoulbug]

A standard warmoth body wouldn't fit my Lakland neck, unfortunately.
It would cost even more to start the body over from scratch, and at that point I'd be better off selling the bass and buying a 75RI (neither of which I'm willing to do).