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Translocating a pickup via surgery: 60's to 70's placement
- Thread starter ghoulbug
- Start date
Still, thanks for the input!
Heh, I'm about ready to pull my hair out.
EDIT:
Now that I think about it, I wouldn't mind if the hole were filled with putty, or any kind of cement.
I guess what I really need to consider is the extent of the change the placement has on tone, and how well the paintover would disguise it...
Heh, I'm about ready to pull my hair out.
EDIT:
Now that I think about it, I wouldn't mind if the hole were filled with putty, or any kind of cement.
I guess what I really need to consider is the extent of the change the placement has on tone, and how well the paintover would disguise it...
Probably an obvious question, but if you are routing anyway: Why not put in some double-coils and tap the coils. You can have your 60s and 70s.
You do know that the reaward placemnet is less than 1/2" which means the new rout will not be entirely in new wood but will utilize a portion of the old rout. As several have said before, you are going to a lot of trouble for no noticeble difference in tone.
A double-edged sword, I see.
The less routing that will be needed and the simpler the job will be, the less overall impact on tone the move will have...
I've considered installing bigger pickups that could themselves fill up the bigger pickup route. I've literally been banging my head about this option. I've considered Nordstrand's big singles and DC's, Lakland's own oversized chi-sonics, etc., but none of them seemed big enough to fill the hole.
By "double-coils," did you have a specific type/brand of pickup in mind?
But then you just happened to give me a eureka moment that made me visit Delano's website again. They have a Musicman-type humbucker with a "hybrid" single coil portion,
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and a combo of two jazz pickups!
Seems like these are each humbucking double-coils, unfortunately (quad-coils together).
I wonder which one would give a more genuine jazz tone between these two?
EDIT:
Actually, now that I think about it, all I need may be a new pickup cover, without the need to change the content inside. I'm really happy with the Lakland pickups (they just don't work together for the 70's sound), and any coil-switching device would need me to punch a hole through the unique control plate as well. Hopefully I can do this mod without touching the electronics at all.
Ugh, sorry.
Fender should have been the first place to check.
Now all I need is a pickup cover like that in the picture, add an extra pickup in the 60's position (this part may need reconsideration), and a system to coil tap the whole thing.
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Fender should have been the first place to check.
Now all I need is a pickup cover like that in the picture, add an extra pickup in the 60's position (this part may need reconsideration), and a system to coil tap the whole thing.
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yes I still have the Z.It's perfect, I would never sell it.
As far as the Modulus goes, I put it together before I was aware of the different pickup locations so when it ended up not having the tone i was looking for, it ended up in the closet.
After I did the mod to the Z and also realizing that a bass like my Warmodulus really does not have any resale value, I figured I might as well try it.
The results were better than expected.My 74 Jazz that has all the marcus stuff on it has always been my measure.The Modulus actually sounds better.More bottom more "zing" more sustain.
The sound clip of Ed Friedlands bass sounds a little more old school to me.Probably with the 70s location but maybe without the preamp or with very little of it dialed in, a bit more compression than it might need and the action seems pretty low.The plucks don't really speak.Nice tone, in the marcus family for sure, but not as fat and open as I would like it to be.I go with action that is a little higher because I think it gives you a better tone.
But that's a different story.As far as the pickup location goes,Yes there are people who disagree or question the physics etc...
Doesn't matter to me.I'm very glad with the results.In the end you will just have to decide if you are going to take the chance.It will cost you some money and it will devalue your instrument but it could also make your sound come alive.How well you play is of course a big factor too.
I have done a lot of modifications over the last 30 years, quite a few did not turn out well.Some of them were downright stupid, but this one was completely worthwhile for me and I wish i would have known about this sooner.
As far as the Modulus goes, I put it together before I was aware of the different pickup locations so when it ended up not having the tone i was looking for, it ended up in the closet.
After I did the mod to the Z and also realizing that a bass like my Warmodulus really does not have any resale value, I figured I might as well try it.
The results were better than expected.My 74 Jazz that has all the marcus stuff on it has always been my measure.The Modulus actually sounds better.More bottom more "zing" more sustain.
The sound clip of Ed Friedlands bass sounds a little more old school to me.Probably with the 70s location but maybe without the preamp or with very little of it dialed in, a bit more compression than it might need and the action seems pretty low.The plucks don't really speak.Nice tone, in the marcus family for sure, but not as fat and open as I would like it to be.I go with action that is a little higher because I think it gives you a better tone.
But that's a different story.As far as the pickup location goes,Yes there are people who disagree or question the physics etc...
Doesn't matter to me.I'm very glad with the results.In the end you will just have to decide if you are going to take the chance.It will cost you some money and it will devalue your instrument but it could also make your sound come alive.How well you play is of course a big factor too.
I have done a lot of modifications over the last 30 years, quite a few did not turn out well.Some of them were downright stupid, but this one was completely worthwhile for me and I wish i would have known about this sooner.
You were pretty brave to carry out your mods, and thanks to that we get to explore new frontiers in bassdom!
I'm still a little hesitant about tampering with the lakland (my only other bass is a squier that i've already modded to hell), but I guess I should suck it up and just do it. The only reason I'd ever sell the lakland would be to upgrade to a more expensive instrument, and I'm sure that's not happening any time soon!
Your dissection of the soundclips was fantastic.
Now I know who to talk to when I need to dial in the Marcus tone. (was your over-compression comment directed at the Run for Cover clip? It sounds so damn smushy there, sort of like someone jacked with the settings before handing him the bass)
It's still pretty surprising how close Ed Friedland's completely flat and passive tone was, though.
I'll be going one mod at a time, and from what you're saying (and what I'm hearing with Ed's soundclip), I guess I should get the 70's placement before bothering with an active preamp.
I'm still a little hesitant about tampering with the lakland (my only other bass is a squier that i've already modded to hell), but I guess I should suck it up and just do it. The only reason I'd ever sell the lakland would be to upgrade to a more expensive instrument, and I'm sure that's not happening any time soon!
Your dissection of the soundclips was fantastic.
Now I know who to talk to when I need to dial in the Marcus tone. (was your over-compression comment directed at the Run for Cover clip? It sounds so damn smushy there, sort of like someone jacked with the settings before handing him the bass)It's still pretty surprising how close Ed Friedland's completely flat and passive tone was, though.
I'll be going one mod at a time, and from what you're saying (and what I'm hearing with Ed's soundclip), I guess I should get the 70's placement before bothering with an active preamp.
I completely understand where you are coming from. Have you decided to keep the bass? I suppose everyone is concerned with resale value. I to enjoy the 70's pickup placement , but because I play almost over the bridge. Then I found this beauty. It alarmingly gets rotated with my boutique basses. I paid 325.00 on ebay. GOOD LUCK BASS BROTHER. LOOK AROUND!
Ghoulbug,
I would put in the preamp at the same time.If you want the Marcus tone you will need the preamp.Make sure it is a 2 band boost only.Aguilar OBP1 or the Sadowsky.I'm not too crazy about Batrtolini.Consider getting the Fender SCN noiseless pickups too.They sound very much like singlecoils but no noise!
Good luck!
I would put in the preamp at the same time.If you want the Marcus tone you will need the preamp.Make sure it is a 2 band boost only.Aguilar OBP1 or the Sadowsky.I'm not too crazy about Batrtolini.Consider getting the Fender SCN noiseless pickups too.They sound very much like singlecoils but no noise!
Good luck!
firstly...the closer you get to the bridge, the more difference you'll notice in pickup placement...this is because the upper harmonic nodes line up more as you get closer...so a few millimeters does make a difference.
However, is it worth "butchering" a bass for? no, not in my opinion...however, I didn't say you couldn't do it...
here's what I would do...I would rout the bass such that it would accept a double-J with the rear coil being in the 70's position (or at least closer to the 70's) and this way, there is a nice clean rout that was made for the pickup installed...even if you just put a "dummy" in the front coil, at least it LOOKS like it belongs there without all the refin problems.
I'd make the double-J functional, however (selectable by toggle switch)...as it would be another nice sound available to have a humbucker in the bridge position.
Edit: looks like someone has suggested the same thing...(I didn't read page 2)...great minds think alike...
However, is it worth "butchering" a bass for? no, not in my opinion...however, I didn't say you couldn't do it...
here's what I would do...I would rout the bass such that it would accept a double-J with the rear coil being in the 70's position (or at least closer to the 70's) and this way, there is a nice clean rout that was made for the pickup installed...even if you just put a "dummy" in the front coil, at least it LOOKS like it belongs there without all the refin problems.
I'd make the double-J functional, however (selectable by toggle switch)...as it would be another nice sound available to have a humbucker in the bridge position.
Edit: looks like someone has suggested the same thing...(I didn't read page 2)...great minds think alike...
Best idea there is. All you need to do is stick two true single-coils together and use a DPDT switch that either gives you a 60s bridge or a 70s bridge on the bridge volume pot.
Although you could also go with a DP3T, I would advise against it - you could either make the bridge dual-coil humbucking (by using RWRP - reverse-wound-reverse-polarity - coils inside it), or you could make each of the bridge single coils humbucking with the neck pickup (so the neck and either bridge buck the hum, but the bridges together do not). Alas, we don't live in a three-magnetic-pole world.
Yes, the idea's been suggested time and again - but why not restate it? If nothing, you know that five brains who suggest the same aren't all crazy - though they might be all equally misguided.
THANK YOU EVERYONE.
Thanks to your great feedback and input, I have finally made my decision to go with the idea.
I couldn't find any pickup covers in the size or shape that I needed. That Deluxe P-bass pickup is actually too big, I think, and would be a hassle to fit...
Custom wooden pickup covers, though, seem to be what I need. They'll be in black with closed covers.
Still, yet one more decision remains to be made.
The bridge pickup will be double-width, but what should I make the neck pickup? Regular width, or matching double-width?
Here are some mockups:
I'm leaning towards the first one. I'd be saving on an extra routing job, but the soapbars look of the second one does look a bit even...
Thanks to your great feedback and input, I have finally made my decision to go with the idea.
I couldn't find any pickup covers in the size or shape that I needed. That Deluxe P-bass pickup is actually too big, I think, and would be a hassle to fit...
Custom wooden pickup covers, though, seem to be what I need. They'll be in black with closed covers.
Still, yet one more decision remains to be made.
The bridge pickup will be double-width, but what should I make the neck pickup? Regular width, or matching double-width?
Here are some mockups:
I'm leaning towards the first one. I'd be saving on an extra routing job, but the soapbars look of the second one does look a bit even...
