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transposing chords

#21
le-gasp said:
my friend who plays alto sax showed me his chord chart, in relation to tenor sax it was a step down
Click to expand...

That can't be right.

Another way to view this is that when a player of a transposing instrument looks at a written "C" and plays what they call a "C" note they make the sound of the name of their instrument. In Other Words: When a Bb trumpet player sees a "C" and fingers a "C" the SOUND of the note is Bb. Alto saxphones are in Eb so when they see a "C" the sound is an Eb. French horns are in F... so they will sound an F when they are playing they note they call "C".

The term 'Concert' refers to the pitchs that a piano would play. Bass is in concert pitch (although we sound an octave lower than the written pitch). So are all the string instruments. Flutes and oboes are in concert pitch. Most wind instruments are transposing instruments of some kind. Except for tuba, all instruments that ready bass clef are concert pitch.

All of these instruments can play in any key, but they have to make adjustments so that their sounds will match the concert pitch. If you call "Bb Blues", the bass, piano and guitar will play in the key of Bb. The trumpet will play in their key of C and the Alto sax will play in their key of G.... and all will be good together.

This can be confusing (obviously) the first time you encounter transposing instruments, but its not really rocket science, just something you have to get in your head if you are going to write music for these instrument. FWIW, it is generally expected of professional players to be able to tranpose (at sight) concert pitch charts for their instruments. But, if you are on the studio clock, it pays to transpose the charts for them.
 
#22
le-gasp said:
ok so if i were to play with an alto sax player, would i have to change the chords i play

my friend who plays alto sax showed me his chord chart, in relation to tenor sax it was a step down
Click to expand...

If an alto sax player is playing a C, you should play an Eb. You should transpose up a step and a half.

If an alto player has a chart that is a step down from the tenor player's chart, he has the wrong chart. His should be a perfect fifth above the tenor player's chart.
 
#26
Well, for one thing, it allows sax players to use consistent fingerings regardless of which horn they're playing. A sax player can look at a C on his chart and play a C using the same fingering regardless of whether he is playing alto, tenor, bari, etc. If the saxophone read concert pitch charts, the finger for a C on one sax would be the same as the fingering for a G on another sax.
 
#27
There are a number of reasons why they are transposing instruments.

Take the clarinet... You most commonly find them in Bb and A, but historically there was a C clarinet. Originally, they looked much like a recorder, with little of the keywork used for playing accidentals. Musicians could cover a few keys with each clarinet before the intonation became terrible and the fingering extremely difficult.

A clarinetist could play pieces in Ab Eb, Bb, F or C fairly easily on a Bb clarinet, pieces in Bb, F, C, G or D fairly easily on a C clarinet, and G, D, A, E or B on an A clarinet. It was easier for a player to stick to one set of fingerings and transpose the music, rather than learn three sets of fingerings.

Improvements in design pretty much removed any need for the C clarinet in terms of its range, but tradition being the thing it is, clarinetists stuck with the fingerings they knew.

The other consideration is that the different instruments sound different. An 'A' clarinet sounds much darker than a Bb, and the C clarinet apparently sounds very bright (although I've never played one). It was this that eventually killed the C clarinet and the C saxophone... they just didn't sound as good as their Bb companions.

You also get clarinets in Ab, Eb, D, and G, but these are rarer. The related basset horn plays in F.

Pretty much the same story goes for the other horns, which settled on Bb as the most common.
 
#29
SmittyG said:
Sort of like tuning a bass down a half-step so you can use all your open-E licks instead of learning different fingering patterns to play in Eb?
Click to expand...

A bit.

A pretty good analogy would be a guitarist using a capo to play open chords... I use a capo on guitar because the tonality of open chords differs from barre chords. But if I have the capo on the third fret and play a G major shape, I'm still thinking of the chord as 'G' rather than 'Bb'.
 
#31
dlloyd said:
A bit.

A pretty good analogy would be a guitarist using a capo to play open chords... I use a capo on guitar because the tonality of open chords differs from barre chords. But if I have the capo on the third fret and play a G major shape, I'm still thinking of the chord as 'G' rather than 'Bb'.
Click to expand...

I guess that is why this is throwing me a bit. I think of the actual chord instead of the shape. In your example, even though my fingers would be in a shape I use for the G chord, my mind would be saying, "I'm playing a Bb chord right now." The same thing if I tune down the bass a half step--when I hit my open "E" string, I will call it an Eb, not an E.
 
#32
im really only asking for this specific tune (St. Thomas by Sonny Rollins), its easy when someone gives me the music for bass specifically, but i dont have that

for anyone who knows the tune, should i just post what i have from both sources and see what's right and wrong

Thanks
 

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