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Trend towards flats is Driving me mad!

Thats fine and I agree they don't come across as muddy, but they are way more lifeless than the rounds. Put that in a heavy rock environment in a large pub or small club, with maybe only an amateur setting the sound up and all of a sudden its a muddy mess.

Well, I did play a few shows with that exact same bass with those rounds, in a heavy rock environment, in small venues, with the bass heard clearly and cleanly (I'm more of a Hi Fi guy than mellow old school tone guy). It's not the stings, it's the sound/eq. Depending on where you stand sounds changes. Hell, I saw Rush twice in the last tour, and in one of the two venues (nosebleeds in a basketball arena) I hard a lot of trouble understanding the bass - Geddy Frikkin Lee, with new Rotosound steel rounds on a Rickenbacker sounded indistinct. The next show (in a much better seat) was noticeably better sounding.
 
I often have the luxury of many rehearsals and/or day-long sound checks in a given venue. I'll bring a few basses- flats, rounds, pressurewounds, whatever… (I also have the luxury of having too many basses) I'll work with the sound person until we get it right. I had a gig recently where the best bass for the job was my old T40 with some really ancient flats (musical theatre, thank goodness I was sitting down). It sounded huge in the hall and in the monitors. On the other hand, a previous gig in the same hall, but with a vastly different set of musicians and genre, I played a short scale with rounds (classic rock). The gig before that (same hall) was my active Lull with pressure wounds (fusion). The last time I played there was my passive jazz with new boomers (rock).

I don't think flats are a trend. I think people need to play with appropriate tools for the gig.
 
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Why why why why why why are the some bass players in bands I have been watching for years now following the trend towards using Flats? I find myself walking away mid show when the bass sounds dull and thuddy or worse....like I have an ear full of water. Why are you using flats? In a jazz set-up I get it, anything else and they just sucks the life out of the performance.

Yeah, I think flats suck too.
 
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I love flats! I hate flats!

Hey, imagine what would happen if they put us all in one big room. Everyone who was passionate about playing bass and had an opinion. And then they let us each talk, but only one at a time. We could state our opinions, whatever they were and no one could interrupt. Then, they let everyone else say what they thought even if they disagreed, but only one at a time. That would be so cool. We could call it TalkBass! :cool:
 
My ha'penth worth.

Went from Roto Trubass to Roto Jazz flats to Roto RS66 and that was it for forty years. However, a few years ago I picked up a couple of second hand Jazz Basses that had flats....and loved them! They didn't work for me all the time but playing them on a fretless was lovely. And they sound great on a P-Bass with a pick and the mids slightly boosted.
 
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You are wrong to object to your neighbor's pink house because of all the great classic music that was recorded in pink houses.

image.jpg


Rick Danko...flats/pink house
 
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1 thing has me thinking.... to all that say about EQ - ing for flats to get a good sound, bare with me....

The best way to EQ is subtraction yes? so why not use rounds to send FOH everything and let them subtract the unnecessary high end out if required. rather than force them to add high end artificially?

Surely flats are just limiting options?
 
I love my flats (though I've never thought of myself as trendy until now). Absolutely don't see them as muddy - ya'll must be doing it all wrong! ;);)

I love rolling back the tone on my PBass and pumping the mids on my amp. Gives a nice, fat, warm tone in the mix. More punch than cut, although I find If I want a bit of that, I find I just need to start rolling that tone knob back up. Or play more back by the bridge.
 
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I've played rounds my entire life when playing live, but my current band really likes the sound of my '74 p-bass with light gauge Thomastik flats (carryover from a recording project), so I am going to gig with that setup next week. In the practice space, at least, with my db750 and acme low b2s all set flat (my usual rehearsal setting), the bass sounds clear and precise, but very full. I'll see what the reaction is from my musician buddies after next week's show. They'll give me the straight goods.
 
"I don't like the sound of flats"......now is that a statement of mis-understanding.

Flats do not really have a sound,

That statement surprises me. I am a die hard flats lover but definitely would say that there is a certain kind of growl that only roundwound strings can produce. Sometimes I wish I could play them. I love the sound of flats too but it's the string noise that makes rounds a nonstarter for me. I have small old decrepit hands and therefore have a very shifty style (can only cover 3 frets at most). I just can't tolerate the string noise. If I could, I MIGHT have rounds on one bass.


Of course strings have characteristics, but if I was put on the spot after making a 'I hate flats...' statement and asked to identify a handful of tones and say what are flats and what are roundwound.......I could not do it...but I could say what I liked the sound of and what I did not.
Now that would be objective and that view would change, as would be expected, through time and with more experience I gather.
If you like your strings stick with them.
 
Here is my two bits about this, I know some of it has already been said, but here goes: I think the problem of muddy bass is not a flats vs rounds thing-that's a correlation, but not a causation. As far as I can tell, a bigger issue is the trend of how bass sound is approached in general. The overall movement has been towards what I would call a hyped low end- excessive amounts of 50-150hz. I could go into what I think are all the driving factors for this, but that is another topic that has been covered extensively in other posts. Suffice to say this movement towards a hyped low end has permeated every corner of the bass world. The porting of modern bass cabs is almost always tuned to these frequencies, and many modern bass amps seem to be voiced to bring out more of these frequencies. Add to that that most of said amps also now have DIs built in, which means that bass is more often than not run through the FOH system, and said FOH systems more often than not are excessively large for the room, and include subwoofers. All that combined is a perfect storm for mud. I don't think that flatwounds are inherently muddy-James Jamerson's playing never sounds muddy to me, nor does Carol Kay's.

The bigger problem as far as sounds being muddy is the "wash of bass" approach to sound, plus a lack of realization on a lot of bass players parts that what often the frequencies that make and amp/cab combination sound "fat" when played by itself and at moderate volumes (like when testing out rigs at a guitar store) tend to turn into mud in actual gigging situations, particularly when things get loud. The one role that I can see flatwounds vs roundwounds playing in this is that rounds will give you some additional high end to balance out the ridunculous amount of artificial lows that are pumped in by all these additional factors.
 
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I agree with your statment about flats becoming a new trend just dont see it as a bad thing. I think your putting to much emphasise on the type of string. There are to many other importnt things you have to factor in before saying its muddy because of this flats.
 
Why why why why why why are the some bass players in bands I have been watching for years now following the trend towards using Flats? I find myself walking away mid show when the bass sounds dull and thuddy or worse....like I have an ear full of water. Why are you using flats? In a jazz set-up I get it, anything else and they just sucks the life out of the performance.

One of your listed influences: