Trend towards flats is Driving me mad!

[Liam Wald]

Personally I love Flat wound strings. I have been using them for almost 50 years (not the same set!).
I don't know that there is a trend towards flats. Lots of players have been using them for a long time.
As others have pointed out, it is more likely that what you are hearing, and so deeply offended by, is the EQ of the amp.
I try not to get too excited about most anything that musicians do... it's all good really.
Well, maybe except for wearing those silly looking baggy ass short pants that go down to somewhere between the knee and the ankle!
That is one thing that really bothers me.

 

[Mushroo]

Old dude rant: I blame a lot of the current muddiness on players not realizing the importance of muting/damping. You look at the great players from the 60s, they went to great lengths to mute unwanted sympathetic ringing, subsonic vibrations, and harsh overtones, whether it be Paul McCartney hooking his thumb over the neck to mute the E string, or Carol Kaye shoving foam under the strings. A lot of young players today, they just don't understand the importance of muting/damping, and the result is a muddy, indistinct sound lacking in punch. And we have more tools at our disposal today, such as internet video tutorials demonstrating floating thumb and movable anchor techniques, so young players really have no excuse not to learn.

 

[GregT]

More people are realizing what a lot of us have realized for a long time and are just getting on the bandwagon. Flats are cool. Just not for everyone.

 

[Tom Howland]

I do agree that flats since 2003 have become more popular. ( Thanks to Pino on Voodoo )
I've always preferred, flats. All I use to record. But some Bands I've played with have requested rounds for there tone live.
I always bring two basses, one with flats, the other with rounds.

 

[TIMD]

I have played flats off and on since about 2000 and I love the sound and feel. I currently have a pbass strung with chromes and a stingray strung with chromes; they sounds great, play great and are definitely not muddy. That being said 99% of the time my go to bass is a jazz with med/heavy rounds. Zero zing zero abrasive tone, just good traditional full bass tone. For me my jazz with rounds works 100% of the time, the other two sound great on some songs but don't sit in the mix the way I like on others. Strings and basses are tools, use what works for you and be happy. A pbass with flats is just one choice that works for some people in some situations and just happens to be the current popular choice of many on this forum.

 

[Nev375]

Ever try Chromes, Fender 9050s, EB Cobalts, Roto 77s?

Yes, I think so. But it was long ago. They were definitely D'Addarrio; Yes ; No; No

 

[SanDiegoHarry]

Old dude rant: I blame a lot of the current muddiness on players not realizing the importance of muting/damping. You look at the great players from the 60s, they went to great lengths to mute unwanted sympathetic ringing, subsonic vibrations, and harsh overtones, whether it be Paul McCartney hooking his thumb over the neck to mute the E string, or Carol Kaye shoving foam under the strings. A lot of young players today, they just don't understand the importance of muting/damping, and the result is a muddy, indistinct sound lacking in punch. And we have more tools at our disposal today, such as internet video tutorials demonstrating floating thumb and movable anchor techniques, so young players really have no excuse not to learn.

This. If you need to dampen/mute, you do it - you don't *need* to use flats. You just learn to play your axe.

 

[Creede]

Flats really aren't that bad, no matter which style you play. They reduce fret buzz, which is nice, and you can make them sound bright with some EQing and technique (example would be Steve Harris of Iron Maiden)

 

[jwilson67]

This. If you need to dampen/mute, you do it - you don't *need* to use flats. You just learn to play your axe.

Dampening the strings that aren't being played is just basic technique. I do see quite a few YouTube videos of somebody demonstrating something and just using horrible, horrible technique - and one of those things is not muting.

 

[jwilson67]

I think being able to hear bass guitar through the FOH system has more to do with the player's eq than anything else. Even with flats you still need to pump the high mids to cut through a dense band mix.

 

[godley69]

As others said.....Steve Harris, Pino.....No problem with "mud".....if there's a problem, it's not the flats!!!!

 

[JJR58]

Interesting opinions!

Hard to listen to people call flats a "new" trend though as my 1965 Fender Jazz came stock with them and that's all that was available for a loooooong time. Heck, even all the electric guitar strings were flatwound back in the 60's too. I remember I put some Fender black-tape flatwound flats on my 65 for a while. Now I use DR black beauties or Dean Markley Blue Steel on my current Jazz. I like the sound of those on my bass a lot. Might try flats on it, but if I can't get the same sound out of my amp with them, I know at least two different string sets that I like and can switch back to.

Funny to hear folks say they don't like the feel of the flats. They are much easier on the fingers than round-wound strings. I put up with the feel of rounds because I like the sound I get out of them. If I can find flats that will sound the same...I'll buy them.

Dan

well said. and true!

 

[David Jayne]

I use flats on and off. My sound isn't muddy at all. Flats have a stronger fundamental and low mid punch, and a stronger attack with the higher tension. You just don't have the high mid and clanky treble overtones of rounds. If you think about it, this really shouldn't be a recipe for mud. The low stuff, which defines the note and should always be focused and clear is gonna be there with rounds or flats.

 

[JJR58]

I use flats on and off. My sound isn't muddy at all. Flats have a stronger fundamental and low mid punch, and a stronger attack with the higher tension. You just don't have the high mid and clanky treble overtones of rounds. If you think about it, this really shouldn't be a recipe for mud. The low stuff, which defines the note and should always be focused and clear is gonna be there with rounds or flats.

and yet another good point.

 

[darwin-bass]

I play bass and run sound (but not at the same time). Round wound with upper mids and long sustain help the bass to be lost in a busy mix rather than stand out. To hear bass notes you need solid energy in the 100-300 Hz region with another punch of energy at 1000 hz (or so). Also, if you have lots of sustain than notes tend to blur together and your rhythm becomes less distinct.

Flats help with both. The reduced sustain helps to allow each note to poke out sonically. Their reduced high frequency content tends to give a more focused sonic signature that helps the bass occupy it's sonic spot and not much more.

Now, if you're playing rock in a 3 piece band then this doesn't matter. If you're in a band with piano, keys, e-gtr, a-gtr and 3 vocals there is not enough room in the frequency domain for the bass to cover everything from 40 Hz to 5000 Hz. It must be squeezed into it's place (drop some lows and highs) while keys / piano / vocals / gtrs are simultaneously reduced at those same frequencies. If not, you won't hear the bass. You'll have nondescript mud.

 

[AaronVonRock]

I was hoping it was an influence from some other group. I still hope the trend is short lived, as its spoiling things for me as a punter, I hate that dull bass sound. I use rounds myself as that's what I prefer. I know its personal preference but surely if punters prefer the sound of rounds, its better for the palyer to use them?

What pubs do you frequent where the punters actually express their preference for the bassists choice of bass strings? Seriously, if I knew the crowd would be scrutinizing what type of strings I used, I would be terrified to play in front of people. I usually just worry about my gut sticking out too much and if my jeans make my ass look big.

 

[Linnin]

Flats are cool. Just not for everyone.

@GregT speaks with words of steel

 

[David Jayne]

I play bass and run sound (but not at the same time). Round wound with upper mids and long sustain help the bass to be lost in a busy mix rather than stand out. To hear bass notes you need solid energy in the 100-300 Hz region with another punch of energy at 1000 hz (or so). Also, if you have lots of sustain than notes tend to blur together and your rhythm becomes less distinct.

Flats help with both. The reduced sustain helps to allow each note to poke out sonically. Their reduced high frequency content tends to give a more focused sonic signature that helps the bass occupy it's sonic spot and not much more.

Now, if you're playing rock in a 3 piece band then this doesn't matter. If you're in a band with piano, keys, e-gtr, a-gtr and 3 vocals there is not enough room in the frequency domain for the bass to cover everything from 40 Hz to 5000 Hz. It must be squeezed into it's place (drop some lows and highs) while keys / piano / vocals / gtrs are simultaneously reduced at those same frequencies. If not, you won't hear the bass. You'll have nondescript mud.

+1 to all of this, which is why in my 9 piece function band my weapon of choice is a P bass, rounds but tone rolled off about half. Strong low mid bump on my rig. Four piece rock band- same but with a bit more treble to fill out the mix a bit more. I can succeed equally well with Ti flats but lately have preferred nickel rounds. For me it comes down mostly to feel. I can make the tone work either way, according to those who pay me : D

 

[Pilgrim]

I was hoping it was an influence from some other group. I still hope the trend is short lived, as its spoiling things for me as a punter, I hate that dull bass sound. I use rounds myself as that's what I prefer. I know its personal preference but surely if punters prefer the sound of rounds, its better for the palyer to use them?

I doubt that it's short-lived. Basses have been using flats since the 50's, and they were the default string through the 60's. I use flats on almost all my basses, and my 1963 Precision still has the flats that were on it in 1972.

It sounds just great, it still has some treble in the strings, and it doesn't have that annoying "zing" that you get with rounds.

Flats don't annoy me, but a lot of treble and slappity-poppity slapping by the bass will get me to change the radio station pretty fast.

 

[SanDiegoHarry]

FWIW - my experience with flats v rounds:
In 1976 I got my 1st bass - a gibson EB1 with flats. I knew *nothing* but I did know that my bass did *not* sound like the bassists I was really growing to admire, chiefly Chris Squire. I took lessons and played until one of my strings broke. My teacher suggested I try rounds - and I had never even heard of roundwound strings - but I dug my teacher, so I went with it. Initially I *hated* then. They hurt my fingers like crazy and I still didn't get that great Chris sound (I was too young and silly to understand that it just *might* be the bass...). But after a while, my fingers got used rounds and I just used them.

FF two years when my parents decided to buy me my first Fender - a brand new 77 J bass, which had, of course, Fender flats. It felt strange and sounded muddy and I just couldn't get my head around it. I changed to rounds, changed to this, changed to that - you know, trying everything (including black tapewounds which looked cool but sounded like caca) - - But I always preferred that big "zing" of rounds, both the sound *and* the feel. Then I discovered RotoSounds and that was it - I was hooked. Since, I've moved onto DRs but I have not put flats on any bass since; I briefly had a early 70s P bass that I planned to put flats on for a motown review I was joining, but that band fell apart before the 1st gig so I sold the bass and that was that. No more flats for me. But lord knows that I've used & gigged flats as a kid - and that was plenty. I know what I like and I'm sticking with it. Now, I'd never tell another guy what he should like - but I'd also caution folks about getting sucked into fad behavior; I am convinced - utterly convinced - that there is a goofy trend in our society to enshrine all that is old, even if was awful. Rounds were very uncommon back before the late '70s and so flats are now considered "Vintagish" - and so are thought of as "better" since everything that is old is better - at least according to what I call "the cult of the old and crappy". So if you dig flats, if they work for you - cool. If someone tells you SHOULD dig them, think for yourself, that's what I say.