Trend towards flats is Driving me mad!

[DuShauh]

(apologies for the crap performance, but the idea was to play a bit of slap/finger/pick with both rounds and flats. Interface direct to recording - no processing whatsoever)

Your recordings is a good aural display of what I was just about to say. In the mix of a live show, I seriously doubt that anyone listening would be able to tell if I'm playing flats or rounds. I listen to recordings of myself and sometimes it's difficult to tell. That speaks to EQ, mixing, how and play, and so many other variables. But...everyone (OP included) has a right to an opinion. even if it's misguided

 

[sotua]

Your recordings is a good aural display of what I was just about to say. In the mix of a live show, I seriously doubt that anyone listening would be able to tell if I'm playing flats or rounds. I listen to recordings of myself and sometimes it's difficult to tell. That speaks to EQ, mixing, how and play, and so many other variables. But...everyone (OP included) has a right to an opinion. even if it's misguided

I finally removed the flats because I needed every extra little zing at the top (playing very bass-in-your-face music that required a very grindy tone, and well, I only have one bass) and the feel wasn't quite there for me. Too tight. But I was expecting a lot duller sound. I would actually think these would work great for mixes with lots of heavy guitars, as they allow you to have a very well defined fundamental tone. There's no inherent mud, which is the preconception with flats. It's a very tight, focused fundamental and midrange, with no finger noise and a little less clang. It was a very cool experiment to play very aggresively, with the right hand closer to the neck, and be able to pull it off because the clang was more pleasant and not as harsh as the clang with rounds. If I had more than one bass, I would probably be stringing one with flats.

 

[shawshank72]

I hate when people bitch about what others prefer to play with.
To each their own.

 

[zombie1965]

ps If flats sound so bad, OP, then how come all those bass players are getting gigs, and you're down in the audience listening?

For info I have plenty of gigs cheers, but i also choose to listen to others. you see I'm a music fan as well as a musician

 

[MovingPitchers]

OP, if you hate flats just say so.

 

[zombie1965]

While I more or less agree with you, I have to ask: Why do you care? If other players want to sound bad, how does that hurt you or me? I actually see it as good for me when guys embrace old/bad things. It makes me sound better in comparison. So just relax - let them have their mud-tone. It's cool.

Thing is, Im as much of a fan of other bands as i am a musician I really used to like and aspire to one particular bands sound that is now poor by comparison, I cant bring myself to go watch them right now because i will walk away disappointed.

Maybe its like others have said, not a problem with flats per se but a problem that the band haven't adjusted to suit yet or that the sound guy hasn't got the sound sorted since the change.

 

[zombie1965]

To the OP:
I think you are getting a lot of great answers from a lot of different bassists. I know you are not a fan of flats so much, but at least your original question is being addressed well. I am enjoying the thread. Thank you.

I just hope that I haven't shaken a wasps nest with my dislike of flats lots of good things being debated though so I'm happy

 

[Thudflyer]

What really matters is the enjoyment of the crowd and the success of the band. I don't see where our string types play a very big factor here.

 

[zombie1965]

OP, if you hate flats just say so.

I think I did.

 

[TinIndian]

I have tried Flats a couple times in the last few years and they just dont do it for me. I think that characterizing them as dull and muddy is not a true statement though. I have heard plenty of guys get a nice grindy tone out of them.

 

[zombie1965]

(apologies for the crap performance, but the idea was to play a bit of slap/finger/pick with both rounds and flats. Interface direct to recording - no processing whatsoever)

dont like from the half way point is that the flats?

 

[fjadams]

If I wanted twang, I'd buy a Strat and a Twin.

I use them because I prefer the sound.. But I do realize that one needs nice new rounds to impress the multitudes at Guitar Center with one's slapping skills.

 

[sotua]

dont like from the half way point is that the flats?

Yes, halfway point is the flats. There is no mud compared to the rounds, only a little less zing. And that's before any kind of processing. There's not even a preamp, that's the interface straight to track. Put a guitar track on top of that and the difference becomes moot. If you know how to EQ, there are more than enough mids in the sound to generate an articulate sound with clear fundamental.

They are, however, chromes - some of the brightest flats in the market. Possibly with LaBella's DTF there would be a bigger loss of high frequencies.

Another part where I loved the flats (which I didn't record before going back to rounds) was with distortion. The lack of those high frequencies made it less harsh when subjected to boatloads of gain.

 

[zombie1965]

Yes, halfway point is the flats. There is no mud compared to the rounds, only a little less zing. And that's before any kind of processing. There's not even a preamp, that's the interface straight to track. Put a guitar track on top of that and the difference becomes moot. If you know how to EQ, there are more than enough mids in the sound to generate an articulate sound with clear fundamental.

They are, however, chromes - some of the brightest flats in the market. Possibly with LaBella's DTF there would be a bigger loss of high frequencies.

Another part where I loved the flats (which I didn't record before going back to rounds) was with distortion. The lack of those high frequencies made it less harsh when subjected to boatloads of gain.

Thats fine and I agree they don't come across as muddy, but they are way more lifeless than the rounds. Put that in a heavy rock environment in a large pub or small club, with maybe only an amateur setting the sound up and all of a sudden its a muddy mess.

 

[zombie1965]

sorry everyone flats just aren't for me in most situations.

 

[blue4]

Why why why why why why are the some bass players in bands I have been watching for years now following the trend towards using Flats? I find myself walking away mid show when the bass sounds dull and thuddy or worse....like I have an ear full of water. Why are you using flats? In a jazz set-up I get it, anything else and they just sucks the life out of the performance.

Nothing annoys me more than a guy with rounds and a heavy pick creating more fret buzz than bass sound. I use flats because they sound better. Although many time if the EQ is done right or the player can play it doesn't really matter.

 

[R&B]

Great discussion, and reassuringly polite for the most part! Hold the popcorn.

For me, rounds on a Jazz for sure, tone rolled off. Flats or sometimes rounds on a P, yep, tone rolled off. I prefer the silky feel of La Bella or Sadowsky flats most of the time, though when playing faster, the fingertip grip that rounds give seems to help my accuracy. Live, I can't reliably tell the difference as it is mostly in the EQ and playing technique.

I am with the camp the defines bass tone as Jamerson, Babbitt, Dunn about 75% of the time. Yet I do appreciate grind and growl in the right setting. I don't dig trebly bass or slap as a rule, though I appreciate the musicianship those techniques require.

String noise and clank drives me crazy. When playing rounds I have to be careful not to slide on the strings when shifting. Takes more effort than just playing (as with flats). And a bass player who just plays is a happy bass player! So, in the end, flats > rounds IMHO.

EDIT: Forgot to mention Pressurewounds. Great on Jazz or Precision. Funny, I think of them as rounds but they are sort of in between.

 

[SanDiegoHarry]

Thing is, Im as much of a fan of other bands as i am a musician I really used to like and aspire to one particular bands sound that is now poor by comparison, I cant bring myself to go watch them right now because i will walk away disappointed.

Maybe its like others have said, not a problem with flats per se but a problem that the band haven't adjusted to suit yet or that the sound guy hasn't got the sound sorted since the change.

Flats won't be that issue - it may simply be that many bands stink, no matter what strings they use.

I just know what I like to feel and hear and flats don't really fit into that. I like tapewounds on a single bass I've played (Rob Allen deep 4 fretless) but otherwise - I'll stick with rounds. I can always put a sponge under the strings by the bridge if I want to get that old motown thump.

 

[Not yet]

Tried em (TI) for years on a 70s stingray didn't like sound of to tone down the zing so I would take the Stingray to more gigs

Not so much

Didn't like feel or sound, and still don't care for Stingray Tone (P bass guy)

Took off strings but kept the bass for sentiment, Was young when I bought it....you can do the math

They work for some....

 

[MaccaMan1964]

+1 for Lobster11 and Chris Wood. It's all about how things sound in the 'house'. I love flats. Their feel, sound and durability are wonderful. Sound - or what you WANT your sound to be - is subjective. However, acoustics and physics being what they are, in MANY cases of live usage, flats can sound 'muddy' or whatever other word you use to describe lack of articulation in the bass tone. Choosing rounds for live performances when you don't have Paul McCartney's sound guys or aren't playing in the Motown Studio where James Jamerson played, can be a good 'fix' to add back in extra highs, clarity and tighter, punchier bass tone. This can offset - partially - some of the typical issues of bad rooms, bad PA's, bad DI's, etc. Again, the key word is: SUBJECTIVE.... IMHO....