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Tricky employer question

#21
fenderhutz said:
"The company decided to downsize, that's why I researched your company and found this position I believe I am qualified for."

Keep it brief the reason you are gone, and come back into with showing interest in the company.

Keep it simple and short. You shouldn't have to write an essay on why you are unemployed.
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This. While I'm a fan of honesty, I think there's no reason to advertise that you were fired for 'performance' reasons. Unless you've got some super-esoteric skill that makes you a shoo-in for this job, I would say that having been fired from your last job would almost immediately disqualify you for a competitive position, particularly in this job market.
 
#23
Fenderhutz - that should be fine except the OP seems to think that his potential new boss and old boss are going to hook up and talk about him off the record...

Something just isn't quite square in all of this.

OP - Why do you *think* you were let go and why are you afraid of what your former boss might say about you? You should have some clue...
 
#24
tZer said:
Also - and I am completely unsure about this - I think your previous employer is not allowed to say anything that might prevent you from getting a job. Thus, if they were contacted all they could do was confirm that you did work there - not offer info about why you left or salary or other things... But again - I am not sure about that.
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It is not illegal to go into further detail for a reference, even if the respondent gives up potentially harmful information (unless there is a state-level law in some states that I'm unaware of).

HOWEVER, many employers, particuarly larger employers, generally just give rank, serial number, and employment dates because they could open themselves up to a slander suit if they publish negative information to a third party (i.e., the potential employer of the applicant).
 
#25
LiquidMidnight said:
It is not illegal to go into further detail for a reference, even if the respondent gives up potentially harmful information (unless there is a state-level law in some states that I'm unaware of).

HOWEVER, many employers, particuarly larger employers, generally just give rank, serial number, and employment dates because they could open themselves up to a slander suit if they publish negative information to a third party (i.e., the potential employer of the applicant).
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Yeah - I just googled it. They can give negative info if it's factual. Probably won't because it really doesn't benefit them in any way. If you put in 10 reasonable good years, it'd be a crying shame if they couldn't at least give you a half-way OK reference.

I'm still wondering why you'd think they'd do that do you either in an official reference or off the books as you say...
 
#26
elgecko said:
It's like those tricky questionnaires potential employers give you. Strangely worded questions like:

- Have you ever tried sugar...or PCP?

:p

RIP Mitch :(
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More from Mitch:

I had a job interview with an insurance company, and the lady said, "Where do you see yourself in five years?" I said, "Celebrating the fifth year anniversary of you asking me that question."



Yerf Dog said:
Fired means you weren't doing what they expected you to do and they will hire someone to replace you.

Laid off means the job is no longer available.
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True. Fired implies that your performance, attitude etc made you unfit for your job. At least for me, being fired would negate my ability to collect unemployment, same as quitting.
 
#28
tZer said:
Also - and I am completely unsure about this - I think your previous employer is not allowed to say anything that might prevent you from getting a job. Thus, if they were contacted all they could do was confirm that you did work there - not offer info about why you left or salary or other things... But again - I am not sure about that.
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this is correct, but that doesnt mean its going to stop the potential employer from asking and the former employer from answering

i see others saying to the contrary. it is my understanding, in my state atleast, that the only thing a former employer can do [on the record] is verify dates of employment.
 
#29
Guys it is a very small world out there in most industries. People talk and word gets around. People don't necessarily do things "by the book", even though they should.

Case in point. Years ago, I interviewed for a position with a firm that was out of state. One of the interviewers at my prospective employer saw XYZ company on my resume and called a buddy of his at the branch office of XYZ company in his state. Well word got back to my boss at XYZ company in my state. When I quit my job my boss said, "I know. We heard from our branch office that you were looking for another job." I had already accepted the position and did move out of state. Things turned out okay but I was miffed a the guy for blowing my cover.
 
#30
If you're asked, rather than trying to choose the correct terminology, just describe what happened, for instance: You were called into the boss's office and told that you were being dismissed, but you weren't given a cause, and you've never received a reprimand. That seems like a pretty accurate description of what happened.

If you're terminated "with cause," then you can't collect unemployment. This can get them into legal hot water if they can't prove a valid cause. Professionally managed companies will follow a strict procedure that probably includes giving you a written warning. You'd know if that happened.

Did you collect unemployment?

In my view, a casual verbal comment about "performance" can simply be ignored. Maybe you're being too hard on yourself. If your boss never tried to address any specific performance issues with you, then maybe you shouldn't blame yourself. Focus on your strengths.
 
#32
I agree with some of the earlier posts - because you can collect unemployment you weren't really fired, but rather "let go". It was a mutual agreement to part ways (even though you really didn't have a say in it). Further, as someone who has hired and let go several people over the years I know that the companies that I worked for would not allow me to give a personal on the record reference for an employee of mine - this had to come from HR and it would be very simple - dates, salary history if requested, etc. When I did give personal references I always made sure that I specified that this was my opinion only and in no way the opinion of the company. And I would only do this for a positive reference and would never discuss termination specifics.
 
#33
LiquidMidnight said:
It is not illegal to go into further detail for a reference, even if the respondent gives up potentially harmful information (unless there is a state-level law in some states that I'm unaware of).

HOWEVER, many employers, particuarly larger employers, generally just give rank, serial number, and employment dates because they could open themselves up to a slander suit if they publish negative information to a third party (i.e., the potential employer of the applicant).
Click to expand...

Right on. I do this for any new emplyees on my job. 90% of companies I contact never give out information on an old employee, only dates they were hired etc.
 
#34
Any chance of getting a letter of recommendation from the previous employer? Perhaps from the partner you took to lunch?

Otherwise, I'd keep it simple and honest. Something along the lines of "I was dismissed for performance issues. They would not be specific. I suspect a few things but I'd rather not get into conjecture. I think I know some things I could have done better, have learned from the experience and will be a better worker because of it."

If they call for a reference they may get info from someone. Having it conflict with your story would be worse than telling the truth.
 
#35
BLOODY HELL! All this BS is why I went self-employed. After getting laid off from my last corporate gig (5+ years) by new owners (I was not replaced either), I said to hell with this corporate mind#$%@ and launched out. No more "Brylcreme Bob" narcissistic middle-management dweebs or airheaded HR people to deal with for me. Sorry to be so ragingly blunt but BS is BS no matter how well pressed the Armani suit is.
 
#36
Why don't you ask the company what their policy is on providing information about former employees? AFAIK, most companies only verify dates of employment, position and salary in order prevent lawsuits. It's a safe policy. It can't hurt. Then you will know exactly what you can say to new prospective employers.
 
#37
since at least here in Cali, former employers can't release that information. I went ahead and risked it (since I got fired for being late to a 4:15 am shift, long story, not due to lack of effort) and told place where I was was interviewing that I moved down to so-cal with my sister, didn't work out, so I moved back up here, but my position had already been filled. bada-bing bada-boom, no questions asked. Gotta make sure you can sell a lie though.:)
 
#38
Also thought I'd add that I got a buddy who has seriously burned every bridge in regards to his work history (hookin up with bosses daughter, cussing out customers/fellow employees etc etc) Yet still manages to pull in jobs left and right. Really leaves me in awe when he only goes jobless for a week or 2 and it takes me 4 months....:scowl:
 
#39
fenderhutz said:
"The company decided to downsize, that's why I researched your company and found this position I believe I am qualified for."

Keep it brief the reason you are gone, and come back into with showing interest in the company.

Keep it simple and short. You shouldn't have to write an essay on why you are unemployed.
Click to expand...

this
 

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