Tried out Lumped Bass Strings made by Jonathan Kemp

[Tim Skaggs]

Leo was inventing a replacement / substitute instrument for upright bass. His knowledge of upright bass was likely more in-depth than average even without the internet. The Bass Book tells a lot of detail about how he designed the instrument and might have the info of Leo experimenting different alloy & shape windings to strings where they crossed the pickup magnetic field.

When production of the P bass began, Leo had contracted with V.C. Squier Co. to manufacture flat wound strings for the new instrument.

Excerpt from the Bass Book
The early days of the Fender Precision bass

 

[HaphAsSard]

Excerpt from the Bass Book
The early days of the Fender Precision bass

It says nothing about the nature of the first strings.

Really, can we more this discussion elsewhere? Like here, for example?
What strings did early Fender basses come with?

This thread used to be about Kemp lump strings.

 

[Dynacord]

I do believe there were round wound guitar strings before the 1950’s, but I doubt they were very much like today’s rounds. There wasn’t much demand for any kind of electric bass strings before the 1950s, because there were no mass produced electric basses until the 1950s. Those early strings were flat wounds made like the flats for jazz guitarists. Electric bass round wounds were born in the early 1960s. The strings fine tuned by Rotosound for John Entwistle were developed in 1966 (‘66 Swing Bass). So, for a little more than 10 years (~’51- ~62) the choice of bass strings was only brand; all were flat wound. Most were LaBella & Fender, but I’m sure there were a few others, especially by the end of the decade.

All guitar strings were roundwound before the 50's, using monel steel or bronze. They were pretty much the same as what we use today in most regards.

Controversial but Terry Foster (author with Martin Kelly of "Fender, The Golden Age" and who has 100s of sets of NOS strings, ephemera, etc.) says of the very early P-bass strings that they were "definitely modified (roundwound) piano wire from Mapes". This corresponds with an experience I had the early 90's when working in a repair shop and an Oct '51 P-bass came in and supposedly the strings were original. They were bronzish looking roundwounds that looked like piano strings. Interesting related post by Terry on his Instagram as well https://www.instagram.com/p/CJjwjviHVkI/ Not sure how quickly they switched to V.C. Squier/flats.
Also Fender did start selling Mastersound flatwound guitar strings in 1958 which were made in West Germany. Though these were an aftermarket upgrade and not factory installed standard.

Of course, worth noting that Danelectros came with rounds in the 50's.

 

[ole Jason]

Flats did come before rounds in bass strings. Flat guitar strings came a decade before the 1950s.

In reference to bass strings that is actually still up for debate and there is no real consensus on it. It kind of depends on what you're talking about.

As for guitar strings, while flatwounds did technically exist before the 1950s they were not widely used and weren't in common use on jazz guitars. There are some good threads over on the jazzguitar.be forums on the subject.

 

[ole Jason]

Controversial but Terry Foster (author with Martin Kelly of "Fender, The Golden Age" and who has 100s of sets of NOS strings, ephemera, etc.) says of the very early P-bass strings that they were "definitely modified (roundwound) piano wire from Mapes". This corresponds with an experience I had the early 90's when working in a repair shop and an Oct '51 P-bass came in and supposedly the strings were original. They were bronzish looking roundwounds that looked like piano strings. Interesting related post by Terry on his Instagram as well https://www.instagram.com/p/CJjwjviHVkI/ Not sure how quickly they switched to V.C. Squier/flats.

Yeah that jives with what I've read as well. Bronze or Monel steel roundwounds would have been the most common string available at the time so it would make sense.

I've never seen evidence that any early bass actually shipped with modified gut strings but that would make sense from a prototyping standpoint. Upright bassists would have still been playing guts at the time. Ray Brown was famously one of the most prominent early adopters of steel strings in the jazz world, around the late 1950's IIRC.

 

[Tim Skaggs]

Have you got a source for this? Everything I've read points to roundwounds (sometimes of the démi-filé type, with gaps of exposed gut core between each coil of metal wire) being used for bowed instruments from 1660 until the late 1800s. No flattening, polishing or grinding that I can recall reading about.

I read it in several places a couple years ago when doing some research on gut strings for my upright. About the only reference I find on a quick search is on Wound strings for bowed and plucked instruments from the late 17th century to the early 19th century: what do we know? | Aquila Corde Armoniche

The term used most often is “polishing” round windings down to a flat surface for bowing. I’ve only seen “ground” or “sanded” in a couple mentions. It was done first for smaller instruments (violin, viola) and later 1800s to post WW1 for cello & bass.
Non-wound gut strings can be bowed well, the winding on gut was more for adding mass so the string oscillated better at low pitch.
Demifileè‘ was a French style string design (open coil) fairly early on that sort of evolved into close style winding and double metallic close winding. All I know about Demifileeè’ strings is the were really small and broke easy. I think they were mostly used on violin.

On the Aquilacorde site they show the three most common string winding types in 18 & 19 centuries.

• wound strings on a gut core with close metal winding;
• wound strings on a gut core with open coil winding;
• wound strings on a gut core with a double metallic close winding

 

[HaphAsSard]

I read it in several places a couple years ago when doing some research on gut strings for my upright. About the only reference I find on a quick search is on Wound strings for bowed and plucked instruments from the late 17th century to the early 19th century: what do we know? | Aquila Corde Armoniche

The term used most often is “polishing” round windings down to a flat surface for bowing. I’ve only seen “ground” or “sanded” in a couple mentions. It was done first for smaller instruments (violin, viola) and later 1800s to post WW1 for cello & bass.
Non-wound gut strings can be bowed well, the winding on gut was more for adding mass so the string oscillated better at low pitch.
Demifileè‘ was a French style string design (open coil) fairly early on that sort of evolved into close style winding and double metallic close winding. All I know about Demifileeè’ strings is the were really small and broke easy. I think they were mostly used on violin.

On the Aquilacorde site they show the three most common string winding types in 18 & 19 centuries.

• wound strings on a gut core with close metal winding;
• wound strings on a gut core with open coil winding;
• wound strings on a gut core with a double metallic close winding

I was aware of that link, and polishing is only mentioned regarding post-1918 practice, which jibes with what I remembered. I've also read about true flatwounds having been patented in 1874 by an otherwise mysterious to-me gentleperson named Hamilton. They were preceded by an early-XIX century piano maker, Alpheus Babcock, who used flatwound strings for his pianos.

So that was a no to moving someplace else? ^^

 

[FunkHead]

I use D'Addario ProSteels on my Fender American Jazz Deluxe 5. I purchased the bass right off the line, literally, new in Oct 2009. I've done roughly 2000 paid dates and countless rehearsals and sessions, along with daily personal practice, with this, my only fretted bass, since I got it. Every string set I've used in that time has performed flawlessly, with the exception of a Dunlop Steel B string that was awful. To say I know this bass intimately would be a gross understatement. And my B strings have always played well, sounded excellent, all the way to the last fret. All sets, all materials.

I use ProSteels as my go to, favorite, best sounding and longest lasting string set. But I have tried virtually all strings on a market, these just do it for me. In each case, however, with all the sets I've tried, all my strings play and sound great to the last fret.

Part of my success is in the installation. There are certain things I learned about the install process over the years that have helped the performance and longevity of my strings.

But I believe that the single greatest contributor to my success has been string height, over both the neck AND the pickups. I think folk try to get their action so low as to be easy to play, but I think that action too low inhibits string vibration, and pickups too close to strings attempting to get the most output are what causes the warbling effect so many mention when speaking of their larger strings. Especially in the higher registers, where pressing a string down naturally gets the string closer to the pickups. Sometimes TOO close...

Roger Sadowsky used to write tech articles in Bass Player Magazine long ago. I read, then re read, these articles religiously over the years. And still do. He mentioned Will Lee, who, he said, had to have ridiculously high action to get his tone. I come from playing upright, where higher action is necessary to get the strings to speak properly, for volume. So, I raised my action quite high by today's standards. And for me, it helps tremendously in getting even response up and down the neck on all my strings.

When I first started using B strings, they were new tech. Manufacturing techniques were still a mystery, and B strings were all over a map in quality and performance. 30 years later, B strings have improved greatly in quality over that time, as well. But the single most important factor to me is distance. Finding the right balance of string height and playability is key. And it's been a very long time since I had a string set that didn't perform exactly the way I wanted it to. B strings included.

Having said ALL that, heh (I know, I know...), the lumped string concept does sound interesting. Problem is cost, and, I string my bass thru the body. To get a string with this design to work, it would have to be a set they don't make. I can't use taper wound strings for the same reason. The taper, nor the lump, would end up at a location that would allow the string to function the way in which it is designed.

Sent you a PM.

 

[Tim Skaggs]

I was aware of that link, and polishing is only mentioned regarding post-1918 practice, which jibes with what I remembered. I've also read about true flatwounds having been patented in 1874 by an otherwise mysterious to-me gentleperson named Hamilton. They were preceded by an early-XIX century piano maker, Alpheus Babcock, who used flatwound strings for his pianos.

So that was a no to moving someplace else? ^^

No, not against moving, I just didn’t catch the suggestion in your earlier post; been on & off line, working….