Tried out Lumped Bass Strings made by Jonathan Kemp

[FunkHead]

Isn't that B string a 145 or something large like that? I looked into these before but passed thinking I'd have to widen the nut slot and didn't want to do that.

A 145 was way too heavy for me, too. They build lighter sets on special order, at the regular price.

Kemp strings are expansive, indeed. That‘s why I hope that some licensing is going to happen.
Meanwhile, I‘ll stick to a regular alcohol cleaning routine to prolong string life.

From the Lump website:

"Gauges are 45, 60, 81, 108 for standard four strings plus 146 for five string sets. This gives a tension of 189 N (which is 19.3 kg = 42.5 pounds) for the G string, and very close to equal tension across the strings (187 N for D, 191 N for A, 190 N for E and 195 N for low B strings) assuming standard 34 inch scale length. Sets consisting of 60, 81, 108 and 146 for BEAD tuning and high C strings for EADGC and 6 string (BEADGC) are also now available."

I can't understand why the B would be so thick. I guess it's possible that it's necessary to get the full benefit.

@Santraginus Did you have to file you nut slot to get the B to fit?

I was hoping that maybe the .146 was actually the widest measurement(Lump Location).

Otherwise, .146 is probably a deal breaker for me.

 

[iiipopes]

Otherwise, .146 is probably a deal breaker for me.

Dr. Kemp is using the "balanced tension" approach to get the same response and articulation feel out of all strings. I've used a .145 in years past for the same reason. Then I decided to tune my B string up to C for a whole bunch of reasons, so now I use a 130 to better balance the rest of the set in tone as well as articulation. You can always get a 4-string set, purchase your own B string and wrap one even layer of golfer's lead tape around the string at the same place as the lump like I did. See the picture I posted in one of the above referenced threads. It works.

 

[Nashrakh]

I think Dogal is onto something with their stranded core design of strings. But this is interesting too, though it comes from a completely different angle. I guess one difference would be that the lumpy strings are higher tension, some people apparently think that's a deal breaker with strings like TIJR and adjacents.

 

[ole Jason]

Heck, round wound strings were one of the steps in bass string technology, because all strings were flat wound in the beginning.

Were the first electric bass strings flatwound? I recently went down a guitar string rabbit hole and was surprised to learn flatwound guitar strings weren't really a thing until the 1950's

 

[Snipehunter]

Dr. Kemp is using the "balanced tension" approach to get the same response and articulation feel out of all strings. I've used a .145 in years past for the same reason. Then I decided to tune my B string up to C for a whole bunch of reasons, so now I use a 130 to better balance the rest of the set in tone as well as articulation. You can always get a 4-string set, purchase your own B string and wrap one even layer of golfer's lead tape around the string at the same place as the lump like I did. See the picture I posted in one of the above referenced threads. It works.

Thanks for the tip! I just ordered some golfer's lead tape and will report back results.

For others, here's a link to the post with the photo of the lead tape application.

 

[Santraginus]

From the Lump website:

"Gauges are 45, 60, 81, 108 for standard four strings plus 146 for five string sets. This gives a tension of 189 N (which is 19.3 kg = 42.5 pounds) for the G string, and very close to equal tension across the strings (187 N for D, 191 N for A, 190 N for E and 195 N for low B strings) assuming standard 34 inch scale length. Sets consisting of 60, 81, 108 and 146 for BEAD tuning and high C strings for EADGC and 6 string (BEADGC) are also now available."

I can't understand why the B would be so thick. I guess it's possible that it's necessary to get the full benefit.

@Santraginus Did you have to file you nut slot to get the B to fit?

I was hoping that maybe the .146 was actually the widest measurement(Lump Location).

Otherwise, .146 is probably a deal breaker for me.

It would have been a deal breaker for me, too.
I got a much lighter set made:

B = 0.124
E = 0.092
A = 0.069
D = 0.052
G = 0.038

It will still have (almost) equal string tension. However, this was not my main goal. For me, it is all about tone.

 

[40Hz]

Being a string junkie, I’m definitely going to have to try a set out on my Ripper. That bass has a very tight and clear midrange forward sound. And the pickups are especially well balanced between the neck and bridge. It could probably make good use of the characteristics that those strings have.

They are a little on the expensive side as far as bass guitar string sets go. Still, they’re no worse in terms of price than the Dougal Hellborgs or TIs I also use. And if you compare them to the price of upright bass strings, they’re closer to being pocket change.

Yeah. I’m gonna get me some.

 

[FunkHead]

I think Dogal is onto something with their stranded core design of strings. But this is interesting too, though it comes from a completely different angle. I guess one difference would be that the lumpy strings are higher tension, some people apparently think that's a deal breaker with strings like TIJR and adjacents.

I was intrigued by the Dogals but started finding complaints about them breaking. Maybe It's not a widespread thing so I'll have to revisit them too.

 

[Tim Skaggs]

Were the first electric bass strings flatwound? I recently went down a guitar string rabbit hole and was surprised to learn flatwound guitar strings weren't really a thing until the 1950's

I do believe there were round wound guitar strings before the 1950’s, but I doubt they were very much like today’s rounds. There wasn’t much demand for any kind of electric bass strings before the 1950s, because there were no mass produced electric basses until the 1950s. Those early strings were flat wounds made like the flats for jazz guitarists. Electric bass round wounds were born in the early 1960s. The strings fine tuned by Rotosound for John Entwistle were developed in 1966 (‘66 Swing Bass). So, for a little more than 10 years (~’51- ~62) the choice of bass strings was only brand; all were flat wound. Most were LaBella & Fender, but I’m sure there were a few others, especially by the end of the decade.

 

[ole Jason]

I do believe there were round wound guitar strings before the 1950’s, but I doubt they were very much like today’s rounds. There wasn’t much demand for any kind of electric bass strings before the 1950s, because there were no mass produced electric basses until the 1950s. Those early strings were flat wounds made like the flats for jazz guitarists. Electric bass round wounds were born in the early 1960s. The strings fine tuned by Rotosound for John Entwistle were developed in 1966 (‘66 Swing Bass). So, for a little more than 10 years (~’51- ~62) the choice of bass strings was only brand; all were flat wound. Most were LaBella & Fender, but I’m sure there were a few others, especially by the end of the decade.

All guitar strings were roundwound before the 50's, using monel steel or bronze. They were pretty much the same as what we use today in most regards.

 

[Snipehunter]

OK, I tried out the suggested lead tape idea and I feel like it mitigates this problem with out of tune harmonic overtones quite a bit. Thank you, @iiipopes!

Here is a playlist of before and after tests so you can tell me what you think. I should have recorded those at higher volume so you may want to use headphones and turn it up. I tried this on a Fender Am Pro II Jazz V (passive) and a Spector Euro Classic V (active). Both are 34" scale.

I found that amount of tape (size of lump) matters quite a bit. Too much will start to make the problem worse and not better so you may need to experiment. Placement of lump may matter as well but I haven't experimented myself.

To get the tape on tightly, you should probably take the string off the tuning post.

Other observations I've made about this issue in general before this fix:

• Tends to be worse on 34" scale than 35"
• Active preamp seems to amplify the problem. Active pickups really amplify the problem
• Smaller diameter B strings help
• The brand and type of strings make a difference. I tried half rounds once and it pretty much fixed the issue but where the harmonic overtones were worse, the problem was replaced with lack of sustain.
• Seems to get better as strings age
  
• I've read on here that twisted strings or failure to set witness points can bring on or make the problem worse.

I will likely still try Kemp's lumped strings at some point but this will do for now.

 

[FunkHead]

I reached out to Kemp on Monday…still no response.

 

[Santraginus]

I reached out to Kemp on Monday…still no response.

He‘s a university teacher, and his string business seems to be a part-time thing.

 

[Tim Skaggs]

All guitar strings were roundwound before the 50's, using monel steel or bronze. They were pretty much the same as what we use today in most regards.

Strings By Mail and JustStrings both have the same info on their respective web sites.

La Bella Flatwound Electric Guitar Strings
The original set design for electric guitar, the Flat Wound Stainless series are the first ribbon-wire wrapped strings. Developed in 1940 by LaBella, these strings are manufactured for all types of electric pick-ups. With a high magnetic content for increased electronic output, their smooth surface eliminates finger noise and string squeaks.

Reverb says:
La Bella 20PCM Jazz Flats stainless steel flatwound electric guitar strings were developed in 1940 for the hollowbody jazzguitars of the era and they continue to be favored by contemporary jazz guitarists.

 

[ole Jason]

Strings By Mail and JustStrings both have the same info on their respective web sites.

La Bella Flatwound Electric Guitar Strings
The original set design for electric guitar, the Flat Wound Stainless series are the first ribbon-wire wrapped strings. Developed in 1940 by LaBella, these strings are manufactured for all types of electric pick-ups. With a high magnetic content for increased electronic output, their smooth surface eliminates finger noise and string squeaks.

Reverb says:
La Bella 20PCM Jazz Flats stainless steel flatwound electric guitar strings were developed in 1940 for the hollowbody jazzguitars of the era and they continue to be favored by contemporary jazz guitarists.

That is mostly correct, yep. Most people seem to erroneously think flats came before rounds.

 

[Tim Skaggs]

Flats did come before rounds in bass strings. Flat guitar strings came a decade before the 1950s.

 

[TomB]

Flats did come before rounds in bass strings. Flat guitar strings came a decade before the 1950s.

Somewhere I read that Leo could not find metal-wrapped bass strings for his first basses as the only strings available to him in the appropriate gauges were gut upright bass strings. So he wrapped steel ribbon around the magnetized section of gut strings, above the pickup. If it’s a true story, then the first flatwound electric bass string was created in ‘51.

 

[Tim Skaggs]

Somewhere I read that Leo could not find metal-wrapped bass strings for his first basses as the only strings available to him in the appropriate gauges were gut upright bass strings. So he wrapped steel ribbon around the magnetized section of gut strings, above the pickup. If it’s a true story, then the first flatwound electric bass string was created in ‘51.

Metal wrapped gut for lower pitched strings of stringed instruments came along a couple hundred years (late 1600s) before Leo was born (1909). Those strings used a type of round / wire winding, but for bowed instruments (cello, upright bass) the winding was ground / polished until flat & smooth.

It’s possible Leo wrapped some type of more ferrous metal to the strings in the area over the pickup, but he wouldn’t have needed to start with non-wrapped raw gut strings. Metal wrapped gut was available long before 1951, but they definitely were not made for “electric” bass.

 

[TomB]

Metal wrapped gut for lower pitched strings of stringed instruments came along a couple hundred years (late 1600s) before Leo was born (1909). Those strings used a type of round / wire winding, but for bowed instruments (cello, upright bass) the winding was ground / polished until flat & smooth.

It’s possible Leo wrapped some type of more ferrous metal to the strings in the area over the pickup, but he wouldn’t have needed to start with non-wrapped raw gut strings. Metal wrapped gut was available long before 1951, but they definitely were not made for “electric” bass.

I wondered about that. I don’t recall which history I got that from. It’s possible Leo didn’t know as much about it as he might - no internet back then. But again, I’m not sure anyone who would know for sure is still alive.

 

[HaphAsSard]

Those strings used a type of round / wire winding, but for bowed instruments (cello, upright bass) the winding was ground / polished until flat & smooth.

Have you got a source for this? Everything I've read points to roundwounds (sometimes of the démi-filé type, with gaps of exposed gut core between each coil of metal wire) being used for bowed instruments from 1660 until the late 1800s. No flattening, polishing or grinding that I can recall reading about.