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Reiterating a point I made earlier on this topic: For FOH purposes I just point to the direct out on my pedal (or rack preamp, depending on my situation). The soundman should know what to do with that, whether it is pre or post gain/eq. Or the soundman is actually the bartender, either way, my first priority is to my rig and to the sound on stage. I have not played a show ampless yet, although with the right monitoring I am not opposed to it.
Regarding the HPF, my first instinct is to protect my speakers, so I would likely put it as far downstream as possible, while FOH will want a signal near the instrument.
You are more experienced than I, so I don't know if I can shed any light on the gear scene in general, but this is how I see this need unfolding:
We played instruments, wanted to be in a band, needed an amp, XYZ company makes an amp that does everything that we need it to do, we fiddle with it to make it sound good with the band. Done, and done well, really with no improvement needed.
Next, XYZ company wants to jam more features into its amp than ABC company, and next thing you know all mid-priced amps are DSP modeling amps. But for a $1000 more, you can get a nice straightforward solid-sounding amp. Also, you're older now, and what's a $1000 in the greater scheme of things.
In the meantime, DAWs give us every toy we ever wanted to tinker with for practically nothing. So we think: If I'm going to spend $2000 on an amp, I want an EQ that does THIS! Or, I could spend $150 for my favorite eq, $200 for a preamp, $500 for a power amp, $100 on a fuzz, and have no emotional attachment to any of it. If I hear something that I don't like, I narrow it down to a part of my system, and retire/replace the part. It's basically amateur amp engineering.
A good bass amp should have a good sound that plays well with the power section and the cab from the same manufacturer. If you don't like it, buy another amp. If my set up doesn't work, I blame my own ineptitude, but the solution is usually about $200 and 8 ounces away.
And now I need 48 dB/octave because I want all of the massive subby goodness. Thanks.
Just purchased an HPF-Pre series 3! I suppose the hardest part of your job is living up to the giddy anticipation that musicians have when waiting for their new gear to arrive. I have heard nothing but stellar comments here, and I've seen plenty of honesty on plenty of topics, so I'm confident in the purchase. Thanks everyone for the input, and I'll update to let y'all know how it affects my rig.
I do the same Broughton HPF/Lpf before my whirlwind OC comp. Makes the compression more even and tight, less Squashy.
The importance of an HPF could not be overstated, and I've read folks here getting into specifics about the frequency and slope of an HPF for the sake of tightening the sound of the band and preserving the life of our precious drivers. For product recommendations, all I've seen so far is fdeck's and Broughton's pedals, which have adjustable freq but a fixed slope. The same is true of my Grace m103, which has a HPF at 75Hz, and shelfing option for the bass eq freq. The slope for the shelving option is also not variable, and takes away the option of boosting a bass freq.
Is there a pedal or single unit rackmount that will do what any generic DAW parametric eq will do: Select the frequency and slope of an HPF/LPF?
If it costs $1000+, it would need to serve as a general purpose bass preamp/DI (or mic preamp, like my beloved Grace). Over $2000 and I'll just replace my speakers from time to time, and wade through the mud that permeates the air in my rehearsal space
I dunno, I just run my bass and amp pretty much flat with a touch of compression. I don’t need a HPF. If the sound guys want whampa thumper, they can invest in their own HPC. Most of the sound engineers I work with would much rather create their own, as opposed to working around my creation. After all, that is what they are paid to do.
While I have no idea what “whampa thumper” is, adding a HPF at a non extreme setting(lets say below 100 hz) before the board, will not make it more difficult to mix.
If that is the case, then a HPF will be of little use to you. Your choice in bass guitars is helping. What are you using?
Can I ask what you used to verify this measurement?
I explained HPFs and LPFs in easy to read detail in my High Pass Filter (HPF) and Low Pass Filter (LPF) Mega Thread
Basically, a High Pass Filter(rumble filter, low cut filter) cuts subsonic lows that speakers cannot reproduce efficiently, wasting amp power, decreasing head room, creating speaker over excursion, and distortion.
And, while cutting subsonic lows(about 30-120hz for adjustable units) allows higher frequencies to pass.
Basically, a High Pass Filter(rumble filter, low cut filter) cuts subsonic lows that speakers cannot reproduce efficiently, wasting amp power, decreasing head room, creating speaker over excursion, and distortion.
And, while cutting subsonic lows(about 30-120hz for adjustable units) allows higher frequencies to pass.
This almost sounds like something you'd see in a modular synthesizer, a switchable-shelf, movable HPF. Most will be resonant but there may be some out there that switch between resonant and smooth/rounded a la some Waves EQ plugins.
I don’t use one. I don’t have to, is the point. I use two very well tuned cabs and a slight bump of midrange EQ at 200hz. Active bass at flat, Fender PJ tone and volume controls wide open. Oh, and fresh round wound strings. IMO, if you need a HPF, odds are you are producing a lot of frequencies you don’t want or need. It seems logical to me not to create them in the first place.
Have you done a frequency sweep of your bass to be sure?
Maybe @agedhorse @fdeck @Passinwind @Azure Skies might chime on the topic.
Actually my choice of cabs have a lot to do with it as they are extremely well tuned. As from basses, an American Fender Precision Deluxe (came with jazz bridge pick up stock), and. German Warwick active Corvette Standard. If you can expand my avitar, you can get an idea of my amp setting. I use DR lo rider strings.
I don’t use this rig at church as we have IEMs and a Buttkicker. I use an Eden WTDI set at flat with a touch of compression.
Measurement?
I have ears, and I talk to my sound engineers often about what they need to make the overall sound better, and I trust them to do their job. Usually they tell me not to change a thing. The feedback I get from them is that it’s great to work with a bassist that doesn’t create a lot of mud.
My experience with my rig in concert, is that it sits well in the mix, and it doesn’t get in the way of other instruments so I can hear the whole ensemble much better, and the other performers also can hear what they are doing much better.
If the bass is producing it, the amp isn’t amplifying it much. BTW, ever play a Fender bass with the pickups and tone full open? It pretty trebly. The deal with my rig are the cabs I use. They are well tuned, and that does make a difference.
One other thing I want to be clear about is that when I play, 99% of the time i’m playing with a FOH PA. I’m going to take a stab here that this is not the case with most posters on this board. In my case, I’m not providing all the low end for the act, just anough for what we need on stage. It needs to be heard, but at an unobtrusive level, volume or tone wise.
