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I’m using the two cabs in my Avitar. Both Eden D Series Cabs, one is a 210-XLS, the other is 210-XLT. Both are front ported, but they have different voicing. The XLT as a distinct mid hump that really helps you hear it, the XST has a smoother deeper range to it and can handle more wattage. It’s an outstanding combination.
That said, they are extremely well built, and heavy. Around 50lbs a piece. No NEOs in these .
That said, they are extremely well built, and heavy. Around 50lbs a piece. No NEOs in these .
Per suggestion and my own experience, this is a situation where a fixed HPF of 30-35 hz may be of benefit if the end-user so desires. The Thumpinator and power amp DSP come to mind. Anything higher can create conflict with ported tunings and create unwanted midrange bumps. As @Stumbo mentioned, I've done sweeps with two different sets of ported cabs and, in each case, the "sweet spot" emerged with the HPF below 40 hz.
Riis
Your cabs are more than capable of reproducing content under 100 hz. If there is not alot being reproduced, it is because it is not being sent to them, not because of their tuning.
It could very well be the basses you use, as my experience with them is more mids than bass. Harmonics more than fundamental.
I asked about measurements because most people do not know what frequencies they are actually hearing. Obviously, I do not know you or your ears ability. Hard data just helps.
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I use an HPF to protect my cabs. Especcially when you push a massive volume on festival stages. Little venues don't require an HPF
OK, I guess I’ll have to sweep my cabs , and bass to prove my point. Anything else you guys need me to sweep? Garage, kitchen floor?
Understood. While I will agree that there are some fundamentals being created, it just not enough in comparison to the rest of what is occurring. Trust me, I know a 50hz frequency when I hear it.
My point is it is not a problem for me and I can’t seem to get that point across without causing an uproar. It is a problem for bassists that play with or need excessive low end, and most of the sound companies I deal with seem to agree. What they prefer almost to a man is a clean flat signal that they can mold. My goal on stage is to be able to hear what I’m playing, and I am somewhat articulate, and not drown out the other folks on stage. My thought is if you are playing at that level of volume on stage where a HPF is needed specifically for the bass rig, it borders on overkill.
As I said on another post, 99% of the time when I play out, I’m playing with a sound company, which is different than when you are in a situation where the bassist’s rig is providing the ambient bass for the gig. For that, depending on how many Marshall stacks you are competing with, I agree, an HPF would be needed.
As I suggested in post #64, a well made amp paired well with appropriate cabs should be good to go, just as long as the bassist takes the time to learn to use the amp. This is a time-tested approach, and one I respect deeply. The nuances of tone and power management were presumably pondered over by the engineers who designed your amp, with the assumption that you might be playing a popular production bass guitar. Of course anything can be tweaked, for better or worse, but there is room for plenty of genius in a "good enough" sound.
My set up is nothing like this. The manufacturer of each part of my rig assumes that I knowledgeably selected other parts to create the sound that I'm looking for without frying or farting out components. Thats a pretty big assumtion, but I'm enjoying the process of figuing this out.
I look at the floor and see it needs sweeping.
You don't have to sweep anything. OTOH, it's a fun exercise to see how a rig reacts when dovetailed with any EQ device including HPF's, LPF's, and parametric EQ's.
Riis
I play outdoor concerts often, in 8-12 piece bands horn bands, and or vocal bands. Hearing myself is not a problem. I get where you are coming from I think. I’m not competing with loud guitarists, and drummers playing with tree trunks. But honestly, I’m running 300 watts each in to my cabs and I have zero issue hearing it.
Please tell me about your rig. I’m interested.
Your rig is actually really close to the set up I was considering not long ago. Doing the math for my situation I keep going back to the direction of smaller, lighter, cheaper, with as much power as possible, making tradeoffs along the way of course. That said, your rig definitely looks cool, has loads of tone options, and the two separate cabs make it more portable IMHO than a single 410. Nobody that knows how to play could possibly complain (but might anyway).
Yes, your rig also depends on the style you play.
Mesa Titan V12 with two SWR 410 Goliath III.
EQ in the right hands can make all the difference in the world. Brute force volume may well make you heard, but at the expense of being too loud in the overall mix. The trick is to find a sonic niche in the audio spectrum for each individual instrument or voice. This becomes challenging when a number of instrument / voices are all competing for the same sonic space. I find the worst offenders with respect to bass are guitar players who dial up excessive amounts of bass on their guitar rig because they don't know their place in the mix, or roll in the context of the band. One instance I found this so annoying that I told the would-be guitarist that since he wants to play bass so badly, "Have at it; I'll just go take a break, sit back and listen."
In this case, the high pass filter should have been used on the guitar.
At the risk of waxing philosophical: The style you play may also depend on your rig. This seems less the case as I get older and my gear choices become more deliberate, but often it is easier to change technique to get a good sound than to save up for months or years for a new rig. Hell, one could argue that there are entire genres of music based on the gear available at the time. Yes, my comment is completely off topic
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Me, I don’t care much about engineering, I’m about the art. Heck from the 60’s until about 6 years ago I thought the best EQ setting looked like a flock of geese flying over head and wondering why I could never hear myself once the other players started playing. So I started asking questions, a little reading, and I do mean a little reading, and came to the conclusion that in concert, the tones I was creating, very low bass frequencies, with treble you could’t hear.
Further, speakers as you know move in and out, and the more they extrude, the more energy they require, the more heat develops, and to extremes, ultimately failure.
There are two ways to deal with that, one a HPF that will cut those frequencies, or don’t create them in the first place and let my cab design create them as in my case. In both cases, speaker wear and tear is reduced with the HPF eliminating it by filtering low frequencies out, or in my case, the amp and or bass not providing it to the speakers to reproduce. The issue with the HPF is you are missing an important part of your sound, it’s been filtered out. As I’ve mentioned the cabs I use are well tuned and provide those missing fundamentals that an HPF will subtract. It’s my theory and I’m sticking to it.
Good dialog though! Have a good weekend.
Basically, you have double the speaker area in a very similarly designed cab. If I remember right, the same guy designed our cabs. Nice rig BTW. Have a good weekend.
This is definitely the case in my scenario. My next challenge is to sneak a HPF in my guitarist's signal path. He's just doesn't belive in any limit to the bottom end of a guitar's sound.
RE: Other sources of bass on stage
Keyboardists as well. I carry a machete in my gig bag for their left hand as a subtle hint. Lol!!
Have a good one!
